Inside The Cult Of Michael Jackson

by a guest contributor

Annette* sits at her computer, staring intently at the screen. She is searching through her database of pages from the Wayback Machine, an Internet database of defunct and past web pages, to find a piece of information that will definitively prove the vast conspiracy against Michael Jackson which continues even after his death.

Ebola? Seriously?
Ebola? Seriously?

While I am waiting for this earth shattering information which will change the way we look at Jackson forever, exonerating all thoughts of his alleged child molesting, I look around the trailer Annette shares with her husband, her adult daughter, and a rather yappy Newfoundland puppy. If the rather unique combination of musty bric-a-brac, human body odor and puppy shit bothers Annette she certainly doesn’t show it, but I need some fresh fresh air so I excuse myself.

I step outside, leaving the trailer filled with it’s jumble of clothes, musty papers, books and Michael Jackson paraphernalia. It is a fine North Dakota evening, the air laden with summer smells of freshly mown grass and distant barbeques, and I take a moment to consider how I ended up listening to a very earnest 58 year old woman blaming everybody but Jackson himself for his own foibles, indiscretions and downfall.

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or years I noticed that every time I read an even slightly negative story on the web about Jackson, the comments below the story started off quite normal, people discussing the story at hand, but shortly after being punctuated with dramatic comments from Jackson fans berating the media for lying about Michael Jackson, or saying the source for the article was lying for money, was jealous of Michael Jackson, or that the website in question was a tabloid. I decided I wanted to find out why these four themes kept reoccurring as they did.

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 go back inside. Unfortunately the smell has not improved. Annette triumphantly shows me a long forgotten web page about Jordan Chandler, Jackson’s first accuser who was paid over fifteen million dollars by Jackson for agreeing to withdraw a civil suit over molestation. See, Annette says, see that? I read the page, a purported interview between Jordan and his psychologist, and fail to see anything remarkable that would make anybody less suspicious of Jackson. I ask which part specifically, and Annette jabs her finger at the screen, there, there!

I still don’t see it, but I just mumble uh huh, uh huh so I don’t get another 10 minute diatribe about yet another person slash group who is part of this conspiracy against Jackson, (so far Annette has implicated the Santa Barbara Police, the former Santa Barbara District Attorney Tom Sneddon, the media in general and several reporters in particular,  the Sony Corporation, disgruntled ex employees, an obscure Chilean author, a shadowy group of organised pedophiles without a name – as well as the North American Man Boy Love Association – NAMBLA, several people who have brought lawsuits against Jackson for plagiarism, the parents of boys (who she says were never molested by Jackson) who were extortionists – with a heavy, loathe ridden emphasis on the last word, as well as several more names I wasn’t quite quick enough to write down on this alarmingly lengthy roster of conspirators.

Instead, I ask why do you need to use the Wayback Machine? Annette answers because THEY are removing pages from the Internet which prove Michael Jackson is innocent. I dare not ask who they are.

O

nce my interest was piqued about all those strident comments and where they were coming from, I discovered many very active websites in support of Jackson. Ranging from blogs to forums to normal websites , they all serve a single minded purpose – to rehabilitate the image of Jackson and to prevent further sullying of his name. For the first target they rewrite negative stories about Jackson and attempt to put a positive spin forward. For instance, to counter the common view (supported by the evidence) that Jackson was never really interested in sexual relationships with women, they contend that Jackson kept his dozens of amorous affairs and assignations with attractive and available women a secret out of respect for their privacy; stories fans support by cobbling together rumors and random posts on message boards from people in the know.

Vile MJ Fan Comments
Jackson fan comments from a post about Wade Robson, who has accused Michael Jackson of molestation.

For the second part there is a two pronged process, which surprised me. The first prong is the mobilization of the troops – which occurs as soon as a negative story is published. On Michael Jackson blogs and websites, as well as the Twitter and Facebook timelines of influential Jackson fan community members, there will be a brief outline of the article, a statement of outrage, and a call to arms. Fans are directed to invade the comments section of the article with missives such as those discussed earlier – the lies and money retorts – to shout down the haters posting in the comments. Not only that, they also direct complaints to the editors of the site or publication in question, the executives of the media company that posted the story and any organizations such as the Media Council responsible for the reporters or media company. To make things helpful, the Jackson fan community organizers even supply a handy list of email contacts so that fans can contact the offenders against Jackson’s memory directly.

Click to enlarge - from http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/martin-bashir-hired-at-msnbc-advertiser.html
Dear MSNBC (click to enlarge) – from http://michaelsguardian.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/martin-bashir-hired-at-msnbc-advertiser.html

The second prong is the immediate publication of blog posts or web pages discrediting the source of the story, the reporter who wrote the story, and the media company who published the story. If there is no information available which will help with the process to discredit, some minor fact is embellished, taken out of context or worse, something terrible is invented in order to make the attack.

This behavior puzzled me greatly – after all, we are talking about a dead pop star – until I did some research into cults. It was interesting to compare the Jackson fan base to what has has been written about cults, and the startling similarities. At the end, you will agree Jackson’s fan base is more than a harmless fan club.

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ne of the hallmarks of cults is the infallibility of the the figurehead or leader. Their words, whether written or spoken, are considered gospel, and anybody who disagrees with them either does not understand or is trying to undermine the group or leader. Let’s look for a moment at what Janja and Tobias Lalich say about cult leaders (in bold).

Cult leaders have an outstanding ability to charm and win over followers. They beguile and seduce. They enter a room and garner all the attention. They command the utmost respect and obedience.

Every Michael Jackson fan I spoke to emphasized Jackson’s charisma, how all eyes went to him as soon as he entered a room (or indeed, appeared on stage). Fans spoke of Jackson as if they loved him – not just some kind of distant, oh I love him kind of thing, but an intense I would do anything for him, he deserves all of me kind of love. (Yes, it was creepy to hear that). They respect Jackson totally, and find it somewhat weird or crazy that everybody doesn’t feel the same way.

These are “individuals whose narcissism is so extreme and grandiose that they exist in a kind of splendid isolation in which the creation of the grandiose self takes precedence over legal, moral or interpersonal commitments.”

It’s well known that Jackson cared naught for societal mores or morals when he spent the night alone with children, evaded debts, broke contracts and disconnected from his family. Fans themselves will admit that Jackson continued sharing his bed with young boys, even when it had nearly ruined his reputation and cost him over twenty five million dollars, because he saw nothing wrong with the practice. Jackson’s narcissism was evident in the paintings, statues and photos of himself that were a prominent feature of his home – many pieces depicted him as royalty, some showed him being knighted, or wearing a crown. Yet fan doublespeak insists Jackson was a humble man.

Paranoia may be evident in simple or elaborate delusions of persecution. Highly suspicious, they may feel conspired against, spied upon or cheated, or maligned by a person, group, or governmental agency.

Jackson’s paranoia against the press and law enforcement was legend, displayed clearly on his songs such as D.S. and Tabloid Junkie and in his disdain for the media in general. In a recorded telephone conversation presented to the court Jackson also railed against Jewish people over them supposedly controlling his career (far from the truth), and was generally hostile to anybody who criticized him (especially staff who spoke the truth to him). He contended that people didn’t understand him. Of course what he meant when he said he was misunderstood was that people disagreed with his point of view, which in his mind was an attack – leading to the next point:

Any real or suspected unfavorable reaction may be interpreted as a deliberate attack upon them or the group.

Applying especially to Jackson. Jackson did not take criticism well, rejecting it outright or maligning the person criticizing him, as fans continue to do in his name to this day.

Fans discussing someone who made a video about Jackson
Fans discussing someone who made a video about Jackson

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‘m starting to see a pattern. This is kind of strange – could I be seeing a Cult of Michael Jackson? I need to dig further. After more research, I discover questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged in cults. That makes sense to me. Many of our questions on some of the fan forums were deleted within minutes of posting. Some Jackson forums are explicit in their censorship, banning all mention of particular topics on their boards (the DNA of his children, the molestation allegations,  certain people’s names). A large group of fan blogs merely reference one independent source and each other to build stories, rather than several independent sources. One fan lieutenant suggests fans only read approved fan sites, rather than established media, so that they aren’t exposed to lies. Anyone who suggests Jackson was not infallible is harassed and ostracized – even those who personally knew Jackson and spent a considerable amount of time with him. It is quite clear that there is a story and that story must be stuck to at all costs.

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fter another hour with Annette, I feel exhausted, and to be honest my brain feels like it has been attacked with a sledgehammer. In order to drive home her many (many!) points she has gotten very close to me, and it seems as if my aura is heavily damaged – if I believed in auras that is. As it is, I have felt her breath heavily on my face as she tried to close the deal of convincing me of the massive conspiracy against Jackson, which is just sitting and waiting to be disseminated so that his reputation can be exonerated. The media won’t tell the truth because they can’t make money off it. I hope you can help us publicize the truth and finally vindicate Michael, Annette implores me. I tell her I will try try and do my best (while I try to unremember her mild halitosis), and as I put the car in reverse to leave, she grabs my arm through the car window, and pleads Michael was such a good man, he could never be guilty of those things they say he was.

I want to believe her. I really do. I really, really do. I’m just having a hard time believing a man of great power and resources, like Jackson, couldn’t have stopped something like this in it’s tracks if it weren’t true. I have to consider that Jackson had the same lawyer as Tom Cruise, Bert Fields, who sued and won against any media company that even hinted Cruise had homosexual tendencies. Jackson could have killed all this very, very quickly.

Check out  Four Nephews and a Pop Star

I’m now on my way south to see Robin, who Annette has suggested I visit in my quest to understand what I was now beginning to believe to be The Cult Of Michael Jackson.

W

hen you ask most fans why they are fans, it is rarely just about the music. All of them say they love his music, but there is always something more. He was the best entertainer. Maybe he was such a humanitarian, or he was such a kind person. Sometimes he saved my life. Most say they love him. What about the allegations? I ask. Every fan insists he was innocent. It’s strange to hear those words from a group of people who believe either that the United States court system is infallible (he was found Not Guilty!), or that there is no concrete proof that Jackson ever did anything (a sure telltale sign of those who have been exposed to too many CSI shows on television, and believe that if there is no DNA or other forensic evidence then a crime never happened). Some even insist there is evidence that proves Michael Jackson is innocent! Unless it is closed circuit footage of Jackson exhibiting exemplary behavior while sharing a bed with a succession of prepubescent boys, quite frankly that is bullshit and nobody with an ounce of intelligence is going to buy that.

MJ fan wishing death on two of Michael Jackson's accusers and a journalist who writes about Jackson
MJ fan wishing death on two of Michael Jackson’s accusers and a journalist who writes about Jackson

Who should we believe? Those who stand to make a lot of money if they can successfully bury Jackson’s misdemeanors, or those who are simply speaking the truth but have nothing to gain? Like members of other cults, the dedicated fans can’t even see they are being used to make money.

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 travel all the way to Georgia to meet Robin. She lives alone in a small house, with surprisingly little Michael Jackson memorabilia in her living room. She appears quiet and intelligent and has quite an expansive knowledge about Jackson. After reading her blog and talking to her in person though, it doesn’t take long to find out that she is also a believer of the conspiracy against Michael Jackson. As she explains this vast conspiracy to me she becomes more and more animated, making strange staccato hand movements to emphasize this point or that while her eyes start shining brightly as she explains all the connections between those behind the plan to bring Jackson down and the actions that they took. It is very convoluted, so I needed to refer to my notes and recording of the conversation later in order to accurately bring this conspiracy to you. The conspiracy had three plans of attack – firstly to unfairly paint Michael Jackson as a pedophile using young boys to lie about Jackson molesting them, (with disgruntled former employees and associates and the boys’ parents contributing), so that Jackson could be held up by pedophiles as a positive public face for child molesters; secondly to steal Michael Jackson’s fortune, or to hobble his attempts to earn money; and lastly for the media to make money using Michael Jackson’s name in invented stories.

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t starts with Jackson suffering a horrific childhood, being forced to sing, dance, practice and perform, day in and day out, receiving regular beatings from his father if he didn’t toe the line. He missed out on all the normal childhood activities such as ball games, playing with friends and, because of his mother’s religion, even birthdays and Christmas.

When he became an adult, he wanted to recapture his childhood, so he started befriending young boys. There was no sexual interest on Jackson’s part, he just wanted to play games, eat candy and have fun. To further his quest he purchased Neverland and filled it with amusement rides, arcade games, an Indian teepee village, a water park and all manner of things to keep his young guests happy. He had two kinds of visitors, hundreds if not thousands of underprivileged children who were bussed in for fun days at Neverland, and families he would invite to spend days or even weeks at his home. The former he had very little contact with, the latter he enjoyed many intimate moments with. Usually the children in the families that visited his home asked if they could sleep with Jackson and the parents usually acquiesced while Jackson reluctantly agreed.

Then one day, a Chilean journalist, who was a secret member of the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA), Victor Guiterrez, heard about Jackson’s sleepovers with children and decided he would capitalize on the situation. He heard that a young boy, Jordan Chandler – then Michael Jackson’s favorite – spent a lot of time alone with Jackson. Guiterrez approached the boy’s father and they formulated a story that would further Guiterrez’s aims of making pedophilia while making the father rich. The father, using information from Guiterrez,  would teach Jordan to lie about Jackson abusing him, and they would sue Jackson for child abuse.

The father was successful, in spite of the accusations being carefully crafted lies, and the family received over twenty million dollars. Jackson’s insurance company paid the claim because they didn’t want to fight the case. Jackson had no control over the outcome.

Guiterrez then approached more parents of other boys to try to get them to attempt the same scam on Michael Jackson. He was successful with a maid who had worked at Neverland, and whose son spent time alone with Jackson. She approached Jackson’s lawyers, said her son had been fondled, and Jackson paid her two million dollars not to go forward with a civil suit.

Jackson’s current accusers, Wade Robson and James Safechuck Junior, also have a secret cabal of pedophiles backing them, teaching them what to say to make their abuse claims more believable. Not only that, Robson and Safechuck’s attorneys are working closely with the media so that particular websites and publications can profit from clicks on their pages or sales of their newspapers or magazines by planting stories about Jackson.

Secondly, Michael Jackson was constantly surrounded by leeches and shady characters who tried to involve themselves in his life so that they could take money that was rightfully his. Jackson was naive and trusting, a babe in the woods who didn’t realize people were trying to steal from him, and he trusted all those who crossed his path.

Lastly, the media. They specifically target Jackson, and no other celebrity, with false stories and gross invasions of privacy so that they might profit from using his name. Robin gave me several subjects – the bias against Jackson during the 2005 trial, their reporting regarding his friendships with young boys, and his drug abuse – and many examples of negative stories about Jackson from tabloids. Some of them were indeed very biased and inaccurate.

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 few weeks later I email Robin with what I wrote above, asking if that is an accurate representation of what she told me. In a lengthy reply she agreed that it was, but also asked me to include that several items were planted at Neverland by them so  it would look like Jackson enjoyed looking at the bodies of naked boys. Them who? I replied. The people who wanted to take Michael Jackson down of course. He was the real victim in all of this.

Yes, you read that correctly. A powerful figure in the entertainment industry, with virtually unlimited financial resources and the best security, attorneys and advisers that money could buy, was one-upped by a dentist, a poor Chilean reporter, and a maid who could barely speak English.

You aren’t the only one, I was stunned too.

 ♦

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aturally there are a few more holes in this story. Michael Jackson’s brothers suffered equally, yet never felt the need to share their bed with young boys. You also need to ask yourself, did Jackson really miss out? In a book by his childhood friend, Jackson appears to have led a carefree and fun time, at least up until the age of eleven when his family moved away from Gary Indiana. After that, even Jackson himself has spoken how awesome it was to see his heroes – such as James Brown – up close and performing, and traveling the world experiencing many magic moments. Jackson seemed to be so impressed with his boyhood experiences that he replicated them for his young friends decades later, taking boys such as Brett Barnes and Frank Cascio on tour with him. The truth is that the lost childhood excuse was just that, an excuse to make his behavior with young boys seem plausible – and only appeared once he was taken to task for that behavior.

As for the media’s role in supposedly attacking Michael Jackson, one major news publisher I spoke to summed up what many other journalists told me –  It’s ridiculous. No matter how many positive stories we have about Michael Jackson, no matter how careful we are to be balanced, as soon as we post a story which reflects negatively on him we receive a torrent of abuse. Our reporters personally, and our publication generally, receive all kinds of threats, are accused of being a tabloid and being unreliable, and the most laughable accusation of all, that we are profiting from Jackson’s name. The honest truth is that stories about Jackson aren’t that popular – people are more interested in current artists – so we receive very few clicks on these stories. They are only there to add to the breadth of our publication.

In all honesty, any objective analysis of contemporary, and even past, news reports about Jackson present a mixed bag – much like his life. There are stories lauding his achievements and stories decrying his failures in equal volumes – and in both cases there are fabricated stories and real stories. Stories from reputable news sources are fair and balanced overall, stories from less reputable publications less so. Sure, if you want to look at salacious news sources there are some terrible stories about Michael Jackson – but if you form your whole view based on those publications, chances are you believe Saddam Hussein owned WMDs, and that the Twin Towers attack was an inside job too. You are welcome to your opinions.

Why would the media wish to attack Michael Jackson specifically? There aren’t many concrete answers from the Cult. Various forms of jealousy and racism is often proffered as reasons, but the evidence just doesn’t support those theories. More likely is that Jackson was a celebrity, and was dragged into that cesspool of low class tabloid reporting for that reason alone. Every other celebrity was, so why would Jackson be exempt? Once again the Cult imagines that Jackson is somehow special or should be excluded from the same treatment as every other celebrity. It borders on irrational, and shows that for many Jackson fans, Michael should be held up as a deity.

Check out  Jackson Fan Intimidation

The final hole is the accusation that Jackson would be held up as some kind of poster boy for pedophilia. Once again, the implied deification continues. Are fans so deluded to think that while proven charges of pedophilia surely destroy every celebrity and non-celebrity in their path would, as soon as they reached Jackson, suddenly turn into some kind of recommendation or endorsement just because it’s Michael Jackson? Whilst most can see the breathtaking arrogance in that stance, Jackson fans continue to push the idea as some kind of motive to show Michael Jackson was a pedophile. More on the pedophilia thing later.

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f the Cult of Jackson members can really entertain that there was a conspiracy to destroy Michael, and they were being honest, they should equally consider that there was a conspiracy of silence that surrounded him. It’s no secret that journalists investigating Jackson over the years were threatened. One journalist had a dead fish with a threatening note attached to her smashed windscreen after starting research on a story about Jackson. Another received threatening emails after writing an unfavorable story about Jackson.

Today attacks on social media are rampant against any reporter who dares write an unflattering story on Michael Jackson. These attacks come from frightening fans, some of whom even threaten death. They are reported and removed from social media, only to pop up again under a different guise to threaten again. As one journalist said You can’t talk sense to Jackson fans. I used to try but it didn’t work – now I just block and report them straight away. Sometimes this just makes them even madder, and they up their threats, so I have to contact law enforcement. One was local so they were dealt with by the police, but most of them get away with it. I’m expecting one of these rabids to show up at my door one day – but I’ll be ready for them. I hate saying it like that, but I’ve had enough.

The effect of this harassment is clear – journalists are becoming reluctant to write honest stories and articles about Michael Jackson, not necessarily out of fear but because they are becoming weary from the torrents of abuse directed at them by fans. Those journalists that do continue, in spite of the vitriol directed at them, deserve to be lauded.

Don't criticize Jackson or his fans, they will find you.
Don’t criticize Jackson or his fans, they will find you.

This vile harassment isn’t just limited to journalists, it is directed at anyone who speaks negatively (in fans’ eyes) about Jackson or his followers. Forum contributors, opinion writers and blog owners are constantly berated and belittled by an army of Jackson fans, where it gets to the point that very few people are willing to give an opposing view of Jackson. Bombarded with fan site links, ridiculed for their opinions, and having their motives constantly questioned takes it’s toll to the point that these people just give up. Fans take the view that this is a game of winners and losers, so if they achieve their goal of subduing a critic of Jackson, they have won. Rather, they have contributed to silencing a differing point of view on Jackson by foul means – and when we once again look at one of the hallmarks of cults we see: The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group. It’s quite obvious that fans would not normally attack someone for having a different opinion over anything but Jackson, so we can add that to our evidence of there being a Michael Jackson cult.

MJ fan tweet
MJ fan tweet

Worse still is the hysterical hatred directed at Jackson’s six accusers. Death threats, stalking, invasions of privacy, and constant attacks over social media are the weapons of choice for Jackson fans. They are relentless, yet Jackson fans show how disingenuous they are when they ask, without any hint of irony, why don’t more accusers come forward? It’s quite clear that Jackson fans are attempting to silence anybody who doesn’t share their view that Jackson was some kind of god, who could never do anything wrong, through harassment.

https://twitter.com/jacksonftgrande/status/499181309353537536

abby-med

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ne of the enduring themes from talking to the strident Jackson defenders, and even casual fans, was their emphasis on the motives of the prosecution witnesses in Jackson’s 2005 molestation trial, which also implied similar motives for those involved in Jackson’s other 2 payouts in 1993 and 1994. It was, up to a point, interesting that they had minutely studied the testimony and actions of the prosecution witnesses that had appeared. What surprised me was their lack of scrutiny of the defense witnesses. In almost every case, these were people who were either employed by Jackson, were friends of Jackson, had gained financially from Jackson, or had a heightened sense of loyalty towards Jackson because he had helped them significantly in some way. If one wants to attribute negative attributes to witnesses because of their connections, in all fairness it should be applied equally to all witnesses for their connections. Naturally witnesses for the defense had a personal stake in keeping the status quo – where Jackson was a free man, found not guilty, and could continue contributing to their well being. This point was never addressed on any of the fan sites I visited. Needless to say, forum posts or blog comments raising the issue were quickly deleted.

It does show that there is evidence of a conspiracy of silence related to Jackson that could be further explored. There may be a later article on that – the theory is merely presented here to once again show that the Cult Of Michael Jackson discourages questioning, doubt and dissent.

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nother thing is certain too – like many other cults, the Cult of Michael Jackson has a polarized us versus them mentality. Jackson fans have their own name for anyone who questions Jackson in any way – they are an MJ Hater. It’s not hard to become an MJ Hater – merely question any aspect of Jackson’s behavior (such as sharing his bed with prepubescent boys) and that’s it, you are in the club. In fact, I expect to be a fully paid up member merely through the publication of this article.

On the other hand, if you praise Jackson profusely, admire and respect him totally, and speak good things about him often enough, you become a member of the opposite extreme – the MJ Fam (short for Michael Jackson Family). Once you are an member, you are recognized as a Soldier for MJ and you’ll be granted exclusive access to hidden forums, password sealed websites and protected Twitter accounts of the Jackson fan elite.

Someone who has been there, just to see if they could, said It’s not very exciting. You get to see even crazier theories about MJ, and if you question any of it you are thrown out, as I was. I didn’t last long!

As we have seen, being a part of MJ Fam also means being ready to attack those who question Jackson in forums, comments, and on social media. At all costs, the haters must be kept at bay. A common tactic in cults, it is called demonizing the other, where those who disagree with the group’s goals and ideology are made to look somehow evil, they are somehow different, immoral, inhuman.

By dehumanizing others, an entire group can be viewed as less than human, as lacking any moral standards, as having no conscience. We see this demonizing, directed at various groups, constantly in the media, and it is common in wars and territorial or political disputes to make the other side appear subhuman – but until now it’s never happened on such a large scale over the reputation of a deceased celebrity. However, demonizing of those who question Jackson seems the only way that Jackson fans seem, in their minds, to take the higher moral ground. They are, after all, defending a man who slept with young boys, so the best defense against attacks on this doubtful morality is to make it seem that those opposed to them are even morally lower. Thus the nasty attacks and attribution of questionable motives on others. This is how the pedophile conspiracy was posited.

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or those who say they are vehemently opposed to pedophiles, there is heavy irony displayed when cult members are attempting to defend Michael Jackson. The terms used could be out of a pedophile defense guidebook:

  • Why can’t adults and children be friends?
  • If the child says it’s OK, why can’t they share an adult’s bed?
  • Just because an adult and a child slept together doesn’t mean the child was molested.
  • If the child says nothing happened, even after they’ve grown up, that means nothing happened.
  • It’s not against the law to take a child to bed.
  • It’s OK because there was no sexual interest.
  • If someone was abused they would never have any praise for their abuser.
  • You have a dirty mind if you believe anything untoward about a man sharing his bed with unrelated children.

To any objective outsider, Jackson fans are giving succor to those who wish to harm our children, making it clear that Jackson’s behavior is to be condoned. There are others that will engage in identical behavior and go on to molest children yet use these same defenses, if not to a court of law then to parents or other concerned people, and point out that they are just like Michael Jackson and it’s all innocent, so it is perfectly acceptable. 

This is the greatest danger if the Cult of Michael Jackson were allowed to flourish -giving a veneer of credence and acceptability to behavior that will lead to child molestation. We can’t allow that for our children, the most vulnerable members of our society.

While people like Annette, Robin and their cohorts may in turn seem comical, pathetic, desperate or just plain silly, they are in actual fact promoting inappropriate adult to child relationships.

Your point of action is clear. Don’t allow Jackson fans to discourage you from speaking out about child safety issues, and ignore their attacks. If it were someone other than Michael Jackson, they would be aghast at his behavior. Remind them of that.

 

*Names have been changed in this article

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  • Chelsea Young

    leave michae;l alone you ugly moron

    • papasmurf

      Please wake up .

    • Salem

      Grow up, you fan of immorality and apologist for pedophila!!

  • ShawntayUStay

    If there is a cult of Michael Jackson, then Tom Mesereau must be the cult’s high priest, preaching to the floon congregation quotable dogma such as “Why work when you can sue Michael Jackson?” and “[The child erotica books] were just two of BILLIONS of books found amongst his vast library” (even though these books were found separated from his “vast library” in a locked file cabinet in his closet). Jackson’s HIStory album is their holy book, where He has given them all the necessary information to go about explaining his behavior:

    -Why did he sleep with young boys compulsively? Listen to “Childhood”.
    -What about all the strange stories of his interest in young boys over the years from former employees to even the parents of these young boys? It’s all fake, don’t be a “Tabloid Junkie”!
    -Why are former special friends coming forward with abuse claims? “Money”.
    -Didn’t the district attorney and law enforcement, with all their years of experience, think the victims were credible? Nope, it was a set up, just play “D.S.”
    The lyrics are literally quoted at sinners (ie realists) as if they were biblical verses.

    Just like many other religions, the MJ cult is a closed belief system where the followers explain events in Jackson’s life using nothing but his own words and his own interpretation, without once considering that the answer to explain these event may involve outside evidence that challenges the core beliefs of the cult. http://issuepedia.org/Closed_belief_system

    • PsychicJane

      So how much were Wade and Safechuck paid or was it dismissed? Its not listed anymore.

      • mjfacts

        Sorry, no idea what you are talking about.

    • JessicaSideways

      Yeah, I’ve had this bullshit quoted to me before… and to be honest, at that time I didn’t know it was lyrics from MJ’s songs. I just thought they tripped on a staircase and landed on their head.

  • Salem

    I just read this article in its entirety. Great work! You are right, they are a dangerous cult. I must confess I am very interested to hear if Annette and Robin had any follow-ups or response if they have read this article? I can’t imagine they would be pleased, Annette in particular. lol

  • KarenL1

    Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for this! As someone who has engaged in the futile and frustrating exercise of trying to argue logically with MJ fanatics on the Internet, I always knew they were loony-tunes, but it never occurred to me they were some kind of organized cult. But it makes total sense. They exhibit all the irrational, slavish worship and devotion of cultists. Michael Jackson is their RELIGION.

    I can totally see these nuts murdering for MJ if he had asked them to (Charles Manson) or killing themselves en masse (Jim Jones). Can you imagine if a Manson or a Jim Jones had had the Internet, social media, and other modern technology at their disposal back in their day? Instead of recruiting mere dozens or hundreds of followers, they could have recruited hundreds of thousands or millions. Scary!

    If any physical harm comes to a reporter or accuser’s family, these fans will have blood on their hands. These people should not have access to the Internet. God help me if I ever idolize a celebrity this delusionally.

    I also loved the detailed description of the fan in the North Dakota trailer. I picture all these people about 300 lbs., sitting at their computers ankle-deep in cat sh*t, collecting their Disability and Welfare checks, because lord knows they can’t be gainfully employed, they have colossal amounts of time to devote to their campaign of terror. It’s no use telling them to get a life, because this IS their life, their only, sad little life. Amazing. A book could, and should, be written about their pathological behavior.

    • JessicaSideways

      I’ve mentioned the idea of MJ fandom being a religion but the more I read about him and his self-aggrandizing, paranoid, vindictive attitude, he seems a lot like L. Ron Hubbard.

  • RIP Tom Sneddon

    ‘I can’t truly vouche for Michael’s character. No one can do that but Michael. I have worked with him closely since he was 17 years old. I have never personally seen him do any of the things that he is accused of. Have you?

    I have been told things that would curl your hair about Michael. I have not seen any of those things. Have you?

    By-the-way, when I was asked to come forward for Michael, I couldn’t do it! Not with any good conscience.’ ”

    posted 05-28-2005 06:56 AM
    http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/024844/p/1.html
    ———–

    It’s bad enough he had doubts of MJ’s innocence, but what gets to me is that he decided to say these things on a public forum. The forum itself is a haven for musicians or producers or writers like himself, so you know these were said to MJ’s colleagues & potential colleagues. He says he never witnessed anything but like Gene Simmons, felt compelled to blab about a so-called trusted person who supposedly knew such things about MJ. I often wonder who thi trusted colleague was? Was it Quincy?”
    (END OF POST)

    The same thing was discussed in the comments part of the discussion on this site:

    https://michaeljacksonvindication2.wordpress.com/2013/12/22/questions-about-michael-jacksons-trials/#comment-7688

    Since Bruce’s original website is gone (or at least not easily found – once something is posted on the internet it never really completely deletes), even these apparent quotes of his words can’t be proven to be from him. But it is quite true that of the people Michael told his lawyer were true friends, Swedien was among the ones who refused to testify. We can only imagine how Michael must have felt when he heard of the ones who turned their back on him.

    Written about comments Bruce Swedian made on his website.

  • divapromo

    This article is great!!!!! This cult mindset is something someone should do research on and really write a book about. It is really interesting and is the description of many celebrities fans. I wonder if a psychologist has looked into this deeper. Great job!

  • yaso

    I understand every word you wrote because i’ve been there (being MJ fan). it’s like you turn off your common sense ..i’m Glad i’m out of this and took my blinder off

  • Out For Justice

    Scary people. I was 10 when Thriller was released, fell onto the MJ bandwagon.
    But by the time Bad was released I was over MJ completely. Been poring over this site like crazy, absolutely fascinated. Hard to believe that people will still defend him, even after all the evidence that’s been amassed. The type of porn he was into was creepy, abusive stuff.
    Tried to listen to Human Nature again recently. Couldn’t do it. Settled for the TOTO demo instead, wishing they’d never given it to MJ.

  • Melissa

    I never was a fan in the true sense – It’s true there was a time I hated when someone called him a pedo but unlike most fans, I didn’t care he was called gay, that he bleached his skin, that he had a lot of surgeries or his kids aren’t biologically his. This other rumors aren’t nothing compared with being called a criminal. But I never acted like a mad fan even when he as called a pedo.

    I just knew how mad they can be when MJ died. Death threats, emailing tabloids…Even fans are divided among themselves.
    I can understand the way MJ fans are desperate. Let’s say Jon Bon Jovi would be a target from this rumor today. I know I would be devastated, maybe I would deny it.
    Sometimes when I read this thing about him I say to myself “See, you’re upset when Jon is called a cheater and a man whore. Just think how would you feel if you’re a MJ fan!” Besides he himself admitted he is no saint.
    LOL sorry for the rambling 🙂

  • Holly Keefer

    I didn’t have time to read the article in it’s entirety but I do get the idea and I can say that sadly, I’ve been there and it was with Michael Jackson(along with the internet). I’d turn my back on everything I loved and cared about. It was torture. Something inside me(probably an evil force) kept me going. I literally worshiped MJ like he was Jesus. In fact, some fans even called him that(“Michael Jackson is the 2nd coming of Christ” I’ve read it several times on G+).. No joke. In the G+ community, I had an account. Uplifting his name for about 3 years. Never saw the light of day and not only lost my mind but lost my will to live. Liberally at the edge of suicide and thought about that every day. It was devastating for me to be so incredibly obsessed and I’d defend him to no end. I couldn’t understand why i loved him so much. My excuses where “oh he’s a humanitarian who donated over 350 million to charity” “he’s sexy and incredibly talented”. I’d spend hours editing lovely photos and posting his beautiful face on Google plus and I’d devote hours of research and writing poetry about him as if he was God himself. He literally was my life. I literally wanted to meet him in heaven and Marry him. Very sick indeed. But I opened my eyes to what I had become. I lost 2, almost 3 years of my life to Michael Jackson. I was completly infatuated with him. Burned dinners, missed time with hubby and family. I was a lot like those fans above, only I never really said swear words BUT THAT STILL DOES NOT ERASE THE FACT THAT IT WAS A CULT FOR ME AND EVERYDAY i AM SO GLAD THAT i GOT OUT. I missed SO much in those years and it breaks my heart. I had seen a psychiatrist that treated me for PTSD and Chronic Insomnia. It didn’t start with Michael Jackson(I had other things in my childhood that contributed to it) but MJ didn’t help either. I learned a lesson from all of this. Go out and live your life. Life is too short and there is way more important things than MJ. I love life now and for the most part, I am happy but back than I can say, I was not and I can tell you that what you write is so true. It really IS a cult! Fans really do make death threats. it’s horrible.Get out while you can and live your life! Is not your life more important than a man you never really met?

    • Dani Vanbuskirk-Beil

      Wow, Holly thank you for being so honest with your exp.
      I am a Jackson Fan, (and believe me I am not a fan of the person behind the music) There really are not many fans who do not think of Jackson like some sort of deity Sure did he capture some divine energy as an artist ok I will buy that, but the man was seriously messed up in the head, a chronic liar and drug abuser. (and emotional abuser of children, yes his own bought ones too) We have never even seen a hint at the real Michael ever The closest we ever got to that was his autopsy photo and the slurred recordings..

      This article is spot on, about the hive mind. You cannot discuss Michaels radical weight loss drug abuse, and self mutilation. (even when we have sworn statements that speak to the truth) the guy was an enigma and had so many parts to him good and bad, that people are doing a disservice to their own thought process and not letting him be the very messed up human being who could dance like magic sing like dove, but had the oddest behaviors and outlooks on life.
      I have had fans that I thought were mature thinking people scream and rant for saying the things I am typing here. I have to separate the art from the artist(MJ would be THE artist to do that with) thankfully my love for music does not extend beyond sound. I could care less what his fake kids do, or how much he gave to charity, or just how many boosted record sales he had..(its true, his legacy is massive, biggest in history) In the end, it is about music not his circus life that he helped to propagate.
      I never bought he was Peter Pan, he actually acted a lot different in his teens do you not think so? He was more adult at 15 then when he was 40.
      The thing about Jackson that too many fans do not see, is when he said something, you should not believe him if it came out of his mouth..Yep includes all the abuse, him feeling so lonely, on and on..It was a sympathy card thing..

      Something split his brain after he became mega famous and left his family home..I have read ex mangers say that Jacksons neverland had a very uneasy aura about it, and was always kept semi dark. He was a law unto himself for a long time..

      He needed help early on and he never got it..Spent his time blaming others for his choices and woes in life. He was been a spoiled little boy with millions (he never remembered being poor) who never took no for an answer. If he said jump you better salute and ask how high.

      Any way I know this was disjointed, getting off to bed, but I did want to thank you for this comment it was really good to read you got out of that hell..

      Thing is moderation in all things not 24/7 night and day.
      And in closing Michael died to me before 1990..He somehow hated himself, and self loathing created his a very false image, and it just got worse from then on out.
      BTW hate the term moonwalker, so childish worst parts of the internet for real. This is a hateful bunch as well, I bet these are the ones making death threats..nuts. MJ was a pop star he was not a lamb put for the slaughter for mankind…SMH

      Danielle

  • silverspirit

    It would seem the cult of MJ are dwindling down to nothing. Vindicate is dead. Elena (Helena) took all her accts and ran off. There is one still sticking around that spends every waking moment on every tabloid still screaming lies they were debunked on. They still insist the boys admitted they lied when the world knows that was a net hoax. They still insist MJ never paid..etc. They insist on people doing their research while they never have. LOL Need a good laugh? Just read them on the daily mail as they use an IP blocker & different names to attack & post ridiculous lies for their pedo God.

    • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

      Silver,
      I will have to disagree, as a fan myself (just not a type that thinks MJ was innocent in all things in life) the cults are very much still alive all over the net. I post of forums sometimes, make some comments about a live show MJ did, and maybe something I do not like about MJ. I get called all kinds of names for stating his voice was not the best or he looked tired ect. There are even fans that say these boys probably enjoyed the abuse and were lucky to have gotten so close to MJ as MJ was a total deity (and I am not lying that was said) Not to mention even saner types tell me how MJ saved them from killing themselves, which honestly has me a bit worried for them..They all sate it is not the music it is the wonderful man, who was innocent never did anything wrong loved women never did drugs was the bio father of his kids blah blah blah. So most in these cults go way beyond music and art. That is what I am a fan of the art not really the whole pretend MJ that was put out for fans. I do not know who the man really was so I do not have that level of connection with him. Point being the in too deep fans that prefer how wonderful an angel like he is becasue somehow they need this to get them out of bed each day, is very very much all around. One only needs to go around LSA, or MJJC and read for a very short time, and you will see the cults are pretty big and extreme.

      • silverspirit

        Hi, “pretty big” you say? Not at all. It’s the same few fanatics who use other accts to agree with themselves. That is a fact. There are only a handful left who’s delusions don’t count for anything. They are till infesting every story with their junk that was debunked a trillion times over. Broken record bores that won’t stand up for their pedo God in public. Why is that?

        • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

          Silver,
          Sure some of it has died down, but really you think all these forums are the same accounts like sock accounts? ..I tend to stay far away from anyone that claims children enjoyed abused, but I also belong to one forum, that does not worship the man(and yes it gets just as much hate as MJ facts, but we talk about music as well) and many there do believe he may be guilty..You still do get the holy rollers that deny evidence staring them in the face..All over youtube though, reddit, ect there are tons of folks that will slander you for the dumbest thing..I hate to upset people for no reason so I do not keep engaging these types that wish death on me and my family simply because I have doubts or say I know for a fact MJ was not the bio dad, or he had drugs addictions for 25 years. Somebody though is making MJs estate money perhaps the more causal fan.

          There are Even sites that claims this one is some sort of Aussie conspiracy . or something with all kinds or strange viewpoints. I understand many of you may have been ex big time fans, or maybe even still like the music but hate the man.I have never had a thought about the man, he could convince the public he was a victim or anything he wanted..I do not care for the MJ or his personal life..Maybe I have not been around in this online fandom long enough to see the real nutters number shrinking, seems like they are growing to me…Perhaps you have been seeing it decrease as you are more aware.

          I do honestly think some of them do know certain truths and are very very bothered by them, so they come out with the most vile hatred towards me at times..I simply said Look guys I am a fan, but the aviso case had nothing to do with money they never got a dime or tried to..The responses were so aggressive it seems it hit a nerve somehow deep down..I wonder if that is the case. That that know they are defending what cannot be defended, so they lead with slanders and vile garbage mouths. No point to make just slander..very odd if they think that will convince anyone.
          Thanks for your comments silver:)

          • Lisa

            I am (kind of) one of those nutso fans. I know why I deny the facts to myself. It’s because I was quite young when MJ became a big part of my world.I grew to believe he was this fascinating human being and as an adult I heard the charges against him. My belief’s in him were so strong and solid by that time that it just shattered everything I knew to be good. To admit my hero was a “bad guy/” would be to change memories of what I saw as a child of him with Webster at the awards to something sick rather than something kind. I would have to admit I got rug burn skidding to the tv to watch a child molester rather than a kind loving man. How can I do that? It would mean rebuilding my own memories. Today I found the court transcripts on line. I wanted to look to defend him in a discussion but couldn’t look… I was afraid of what I would find… I know deep down, he did it. I wish I could change it and I know I can’t.

          • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

            Hello Lisa,
            I would not call myself nutso, as a matter a fact within the last few months I continue to listen to MJ, but I also now know he was guilty as sin. I can like the art and have always had doubts about the man..Something clicked for me that his guilt became more clear..I think for a while I was on the fence as I believed he was only a 10 year old in a mans body (typical stan BS) but I looked over the court docs and Jordays eval again slowly.

            This second read over what I saw was no child but a brilliant manipulator who had done it all before..I was open to him being guilty have been since way back ..Fans get pissed when they find out you are a fan of the music but find the man lacking…You are confronted with “How could you say you LOVE a pedos Music” etc..I say fuck them..They are not the authority on how to like or enjoy music..Half of these fans are fans of MJ as a man first and hardly even know his music history..That is the sad facts. Worship a man for being what?? He as an entertainer only not a demigod, he hardly had any good human traits..I am certain at this point he was not that kind shy man that he put out, or that his “coworkers” say he was..He was ruthless and nasty but twisted..BPD likely.

            I have met many fans who say they kinda feel he is guilty but they are afraid they have to give him up if they read any real information..They say they wish to remain ignorant as it will make their fandom easier..They are free to do that as long as they do not join up with the crazy types that DO look at the info yet twist it and victim shame and blame

      • silverspirit

        Sorry, the cult of wacko jacko is gone. The only ones left use many accts to make it appear there are more. It’s been going on for yrs. No matter, these crazy fanatics don’t count much anyway.

        • Laurie

          He has a new cult

        • anon

          Nope, afraid you’re wrong. They’ve just moved on to other social media platforms. Fbk groups, twitter etc Anyone on social media with an MJ avatar pretty much.

          I’d also say that even outside the fan community there are still many that either avoid the topic completely or deny it when Halloween rolls around or his death anniversary comes up. People just want their idols as they see them no matter the implications.

        • FED UP

          Your absolutely right. A few fanatics have made multiple accounts. Thats a a fact, a known MO for mj freaks. They are skilled BULLIES and liars.

  • Mélanie

    Hello ! Do you know Babarbara Kaufmann? She fiercely defends Michael Jackson for 7 years, who is she? Thank you for your information

    • silverspirit

      Hi, I love it that a person who refers herself to being a Reverend claims to not be a “fan” of MJ. Doubt God will be greeting her in heaven. She’s not defending MJ in any way shape of form. It’s pure fantasy that does not count in the real world.

      I found that blog highly disturbing as it is pure fantasy from a fanatic. MJ was in no way religious nor did he teach us anything except that he loved taking boys to his bed to molest, doing drugs, abusing animals, buying white babies and paying off his victims was ok because he was MJ. Let’s not forget his fake marriages. Had he not choked on propofol. He’d be in jail for doctor shopping, child abuse and and those pesky 19 aliases to fuel his sick drug addiction.

      • Laurie

        Hello silverspirit

        I could have not said it better myself, thank you.

        MJ was not and is not an inspiration to anyone, everything he did was for his own benefit. He gave to charities to try to be the best, and get into guiness book of records, he did not do it for love, like he keeps stating.

        He’s jealous of other entertainers, and most of him is fake.

        He has a cult following and they have no clue about being an enabler. I feel sorry for them.

        They are flying monkies, who by the way are just guilty as he is by knowing he’s a criminal and not turning him in.

        By the way when he was acquitted, jury was bribed. There are two jurors who are on you tube admitting they caved from their guilty verdict as they were getting harassed. Pretty sad when you can be so brainwashed that children don’t matter.

        Strange how you said 19 aliases, almost like you know the truth also.

        That’s all I am going to say as you are about to hear more.

        Thank you for agreeing.

        Merry Christmas

        • silverspirit

          Agree with most of your post. The 19 aliases were found along with all his bleaching agents many more sickening things. What grown man slept with a boy doll? He did. Eeek!

          I never heard about jurors being bribed, but I wouldn’t doubt that if that were true.

          His cult don’t seem to live in any kind of reality. Just like MJ did not.

          Merry Christmas to all!

          • Laurie

            Wow, didn’t know they found 19 alias, never heard that, but it makes more sense what he’s doing now.

            Yea his cult do not live in reality, you have that right and wow you hit it on the button when you said neither does he. I know that first hand.

            Thank you.

            Hope you had a good Christmas and happy New Year

            Laurie

      • FED UP

        Yes, exactly! You couldn’t have put it better. MJ has absolutely NO CREDIBILITY. He lied about EVERYTHING, including his performing style and dance moves which he STOLE STEP FOR STEP from Bob Fosse! He was nothing but a cunning, manipulative, serial Liar! And we all know he raped kids serially,as evidence proved, in plain sight! We have been waiting so long for justice!

  • Mélanie
  • anon

    I read the article a couple weeks ago and I must say this is all true. God, you guys put the finger right in the wound. I used to be a MJ fan. A hardcore, totally commited fan. I swore to the heavens Michael Jackson was a pure figure, naked of any malice. In my mind, he was an attractive (!) man who was persecuted by an evil media- and even more evil DAs- just because he dared to be different. He was some sort of deity in my mind. Like a human touched by God who walked this Earth and only wanted to be a kid. I was an emotional wreck at the time, heavily depressed and that’s exactly when (and why) Jackson entered my life and held it strong. I saw nothing wrong with a man sharing his bed one-on-one with boys every single night or acting like an emotional retard. I loved him! But that would be fine if it was just me and half a dozen more. But it doesn’t end here. I was fully inside Michael-mania, went to every forum and knew the ins and outs of the Jackson fandom. What I saw was- even though I didn’t realize it at the time- scary. It wasn’t just me. Everybody- every single one of his fans- saw him the same way. It wasn’t fandom. It was a religion and Jackson was our God. It’s as if I was posessed and the other fans thought exactly like I did. We saw ourselves as witnesses of someone extraordinary, who could see what other couldn0t. We knew th truth: all the others were dead wrong. It truly is a cult. I left it almost a decade ago and got my life back. Coincidently, I left it as soons as my depression began fading away. See the connection?

    By the way, great site! =)

  • May

    Hello, how are you, not sure you will see this comment, being that it is now 2017, however I will express myself anyway in hopes that you do.

    My name is Laurie and your article was not only well written but speaks volumes of truth, more than you could imagine. (I would like to say some things privately, but for now I will just hope you can read between the lines) From years of research and now seeing it first hand, yes its like a cult, for many reasons, and beyond.

    I am always glad when I come across the very few people who are on my side, more than they know.

    When you have to hide, its not to escape fans, but to escape the law. Anyone who does not step up to their responsibilities is more than likely guility to some point of something.

    What is going on with Wade Robson is 100 percent acurate, I truly believe him.There is a fb page for supporters of wade.

    People were critizing girls that came forward about bill cosby, saying what took them so long, well when your 16 and go to someone with that story they would have probably been laughed at, however it has inspired many to exspose hollywood and that includes jackson.

    People are also saying with cosby its for his money, well people should not judge until you been through it yourself. These girls are well to do themselves anyway and all the power to them even if they get his money.

    Elvis quoted “truth is like the sun, it stays hidden for a bit but it always comes out”

    Another historical figure, cant remember who, quoted ” there are three things that always come out and that is the sun, the moon, and the truth”.

    Anyway, thank you for the article, hope to hear from you again.

    Have a good day
    Laurie

  • Laurie

    Hello how are

    I really hope you have or will see my comments.

    I left the most recent one, well most recent as of now.

    I had to read your article again and praise you on such wonderfully, skilled, well written article.

    From my experience in the past years, you sure nailed it.

    You speak of stalking and cults, well funny how history repeats itself. Its like fans/followers believe everything he says without even knowing why. This is a form of brainwashing/programming someones beliefs to coincide with his.

    I dont understand it but its been happening since the begginning of time. Its still happening and has to be stopped. If we can program others to think what kind of world will we continue to live in. We will be robots with thoughts belonging to someone else. One cannot function in life like this.

    Anyway like I mentioned, your article pretty much sums up what I have experienced and then some.

    Myself I believe that jackson did not even do most of his dancing, in some ways he was like the mini and vanille type deal that never got caught for anything actually.

    He actually admitted he was taught tricks by david blaine (magician, just saying), who has now been arrested twice.

    Well there is so much more to say but I will leave it at that in hopes I wont have to be the one to say it.

    I was going to leave my addy, however do not really want it out in public, so if you do read any or both of my comments I welcome a reply.

    Have a good day and again thanks for the wonderful article.

    Laurie

    • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

      Just curious…I can totally dig your comments about brainwashing..With MJ though peeps have to be WILLFUL victims..MJ was not torturing them to comply..They wanted to so it is sort of different..

      Not doing his own dancing though is a bizarre statement…If you have caught anything back in the 70s to 80s of the jumbotron footage from the live shows (not the flashy videos that can makes spears look like she can really move) but just a still camera on the man he clearly is dancing himself….

      Yes he was guilty as sin..Yes he was a master at mind games…But yes he was all that and more yet as far as talent it was mega.. at least early on.

      • FED UP

        NO, MJ’s Dance style, dances, dress style, videos, etc, were EXACT RIPPOFFS OF BOB FOSSE! Look it up! He stole them! Everyone knows this.MJ is Milli Vanilli of Pop. We are not talking about his childhood dances, which he stole from James Brown. We are discussing his theft of style as an adult performer.

    • FED UP

      Yes!! Absolutely! Surely you have heard how MJ’s moves, dress styles, dances, etc were exact ripoffs of Bob Fosse! Literally Everyone is discussing it. MJ was nothing but MILLI VANILLI of Pop! He stole everything, invented NOTHING. No genius at all, nothing but stealer and copycat!

  • yup, it’s a cult

    Wow. This is gonna be tl;dr but I need to get this out.

    I consider myself a pretty rational person. Always have been able to question my spiritual beliefs, politics etc – if there’s evidence, I’d like to think I can look into it objectively. But there’s always been one thing that diverted for me, and that thing was Michael Jackson.

    Like a lot of kids I liked MJ’s music and videos. When I was going into middle school I developed a full blown obsession. I wrote him letters like a diary. I covered every inch of my walls with his pictures. I really bought into the us vs them mentality. I felt a kinship to him in my own depression and anxiety, we were one in the same.

    My obsession waned as I got into high school but about 5 years later when he died, I was back in it 300%. I joined a message board and poured over memories with other fans that had the same experience, he was our prophet leading us through the darkness and now he was gone. I ended up meeting a few other fans in person and it was like we all spoke the same secret language and knew all the names, dates, and “holy scriptures.” We cried together and it felt like we all lost a close companion.

    Now it’s almost 9 years later and although I’m not on the boards and my Spotify is decidedly lacking in MJ these days, I still constantly push the idea that he was a pedophile out of my mind. I consciously avoided reading any trial documents or information that might confirm what so many outside my MJFam (yes that is what we call it) see as PAINFULLY OBVIOUS.

    Honestly I don’t think I need to tell you that a 20 year old that takes an MJ doll with them on a road trip to a tribute concert to meet strangers from the Internet…maaaaybe is experiencing some emotional problems, but I don’t think my experience is at all uncommon among die hard fans. We deny it because this man is our joy, our escape, our comfort, our childhood.

    It is embarrassing to admit any of this. I am literally just admitting this to myself right at this moment. It feels shameful. It feels like I am a weak minded person. But I was in a lot of pain and I found something or someONE that seemed to alleviate that pain while denying that the man that I idolized was just that, a MAN. A HUMAN. Capable of doing terrible things no matter what kind of rationalization I try and put on it.

    Right now I guess I am still too weak to admit it to other people out of fear I will be attacked or looked at like an idiot for holding out for so long. It’s pretty insane. I guess this is what happens when children are neglected emotionally. I am thankful I was not in his victim pool because at 13 I absolutely would have done anything and everything just to get even a breath of the same air as that man.

    I am sorry for the abuse you take from fellow fans, I am even sorrier for the abuse that the victims take from fans. It is completely irrational but for many, he is all they have and putting a crack (or more aptly blowing to smitherines) the image of Michael Jackson would be too great a damage to the psyche.

    • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

      That was brutal and so honest..Thank you for that.

      I am a huge fan of early MJ but I came to terms slowly over time that he was in fact not innocent..Not a 10 year old..But a brilliant man and very keen manipulator.

      Notice I still say I am a fan of this mans art, I was never as deep in as so many as in his personal life I knew so little on over the years…That I dove in hard core to figure out why fans seemed so bizarre with even denying his death..

      I came away after all was said and done..After at least a hundred books were read..The good the bad and the very ugly…After hours upon hour pouring over every court proceeding…I felt some time ago a nagging feeling of confusion but I always shared this with the other fans…Now as a fan I can easily admit MJ lied and played the public and sold his fans a bill of goods. And worst of all sexually abused children. And probably so many we will never hear of..Due to the shame involved and the off the rocker fans.

      I have never called myself family or moonwalker or anything like that…Even though I have come across 55 year olds who do that, I have always felt I was way to old to be known but such silly tags.

      Fans attack me brutally for saying something as simple as I do not believe that MJ was the real father of these kids…They go off for days upon days with threats even aimed at my husband and young daughter. And these are adults.

      I would love to connect with you off site if you are OK with that and in need of a buddy who kinda understand where your mind is at…I was never as I said that deep in but I know or have known so many that were.

      Best of luck and keep your mind and heart open..Love the music the dance the trance MJ can put you into..BUt just remember it is all smoke and mirrors..When he walks off that stage he is spending night after night alone with a boy…

      Danielle.

      • FED UP

        HAHA, there was nothing remarkable about MJ’s music or career, other than him STEALING. He was nothing but a Milli Vanilli. He stole everything creative wise from BOB FOSSE, from his dress style, dance moves step for step, videos, etc. FACT. Everyone knows this. MJ for starters, had no talent, could not sing (sounded like mickey mouse, had very weak vocals) ,didn’t write most his music, and always ranks low in actual talent. Who even listens to his crap music anyway? MJ ONLY KNEW HOW TO MANIPULATE THE PRESS, and by publishing bazaar behavior in the press, tried to keep himself in the news and relevant. This was a known strategy employed by mj and staff to maintain his visibility to the public.

  • Thale

    I only remember Michael Jackson as the strange looking man accused of molesting children and dangling babies over balconies from my childhood. I did not witness his prime time as an idol, and was never consumed with MJ-mania.

    I have, however, been a part of the of Britney-Beyonce- Bieber- and – what not – eras. What is sad about the “cults” of this era is that when you outgrow them it not only strikes you that the artists are human beings (e.g when the media no longer portrayed Britney as a virgin pop princess), besides image, you also question the authencity of the music… and realize that for the most part it is just garbage.

    A lot can be said about Michael Jackson’s public image, but one can never conclude that his artistery was garbage.

    He created brilliant music that will appeal to masses for ages. His ability to entertain and create was unique and genious. Pedophile or not – this is what he will be remembered for. He is a major historian figure of our time.

    I am in no position to conclude that he was a pedophile, nor will I ever know if he was innocent. But I do wonder why so many people are so black and white in the matter. There is evidence for and against him, both can and are being portrayed in a biased manner.

    The media’s handling of the accusations during his lifetime was disgraceful and tasteless! Just like the media could portray him as a “god-like being”, they pinned him as an “evil pedophile”. I dont care if he in fact was a pedophile – the fact that sensitive information about this man’s last piece of privacy has purposely been leaked to the public (e.g pictures from the inside of his bedroom drawers) is disgusting. He has never been innocent until proven guilty in the matter, in my opinion.

    I also find it disturbing that his porn collection is available to the public. This is a large collection containing mostly heterosexual legal porn, and a few art books and photographs containing pictures of nude children. 70 police offisers raided his ranch and that is what they were able to come up with? It is by no means solid evidence that he was into child pornography. During years of investigation and massive efforts prosecuters came up with no solid evidence or credible witnesses that can make you say that Michael Jackson was a pedophile beyond reasonable doubt. One can only speculate.

    Of course, I find it disturbing that he had sleepovers and hung out with young boys, but I will never know his motives behind this behavior. Many mental disturbances can be suggested as possible contributers, regression, Peter Pan complexes, or in worst case pedophilia being a couple of them. And he was not just obsessed with young boys, he was seemingly very fond of children in general and loved babies. There are also many other aspects of Jackson’s psychology and behaviors that are fascinating to speculate around.

    To say that Michael Jackson was a master of manipulation and was able to fool the entire juridical system because of fame and fortune is just as riduculous as saying that there was a huge conspiracy against Jackson.

    • Don

      “To say that Michael Jackson was a master of manipulation and was able to fool the entire juridical system because of fame and fortune is just as riduculous as saying that there was a huge conspiracy against Jackson.”

      Not exactly. O. J. Simpson & R. Kelly have …

      • FED UP

        MJ had much money and resources, everybody knows MONEY talks

        • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

          Not so sure about that..MJ was hemorrhaging money since the mid 90s and was altogether broke when that 05 trial hit…

          As some have stated many times..MJ NEVER again wanted to moonwalk or take the stage after he turned 40. Yet he HAD to becasue he was about to lose his mothers HH home..NL and warehouses full of cars and other exp junk.

          He had something like a 350 million dollar loan and was expected to pay 20 percent interest..I do not think he made more than a few payments on that either. He was forced to sign another half of the Beatles catalog BACK to sony in order to just keep afloat..Ripped off the ME Prince at the same time as well.

          So dead broke that Janet had to give him the 3 million bail.
          The man had made the biggest selling records of all time.
          He had been the highest paid singer EVER when he signed on with Sony in 91-92.

          .He performed in front of 5 million people on ONE tour alone in the 80s….He spent all that Thriller/Bad/Dangerous money on frivolous needless crap and excess and had for decades. Not to mention the income from his motown/off the wall days.

          ..So broke after the trial he did not pay his min wage employees or his bodyguards…Nor did he even buy food for all his animals..

          These money issues started honestly around dangerous into history and well beyond.. It was so bad and desperate that theAEG CEO would be shouting when MJ never showed up for rehearsals….He screamed that AEG was paying for every single thing right down to the toilet paper and Popsicles that MJ and the kids used/ate.. It had finally hit bottom yet even still MJ was in denial (maybe to doped to care)…..

          Not to even mention that AEG was fronting MJ on everything
          and when I say everything it means just that…MJ could not even afford to put gas in his own vehicles..The broke unpaid bodyguards used their own money to care for MJs cars.

          .MJ had WORSE than nothing in the end…500 million in debt when he died, even TII was not going to save him no matter how much he thought it would.

          MJs money fame and power talked BIG TIME during the 80s.. Not so much 90s and beyond.

      • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

        I agree…It does not have to be either or.. The truth lies some place in the dead middle.

    • Andreas

      I’m not sure people are that ‘black or white’ about the issue (no pun intended!). I don’t have any real sample about how many people thinks he’s guilty or innocent, so this is just my impression, but looking at developments of things going viral at reddit, comment fields in mainstream articles and so on, it seems there’s still wildly confusion as of today on what to believe.

      A confusion where MOST people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but a few people admits there’s something about his story that was not right. There’s s lot of smoke.

      Then there’s the loyal fanbase who’ll defend him no matter what, and then there’s us, the alleged haters who have looked closely at it. I don’t personally doubt he was a child molester at all, I think the corroborative evidence is more than strong enough to conclude that, but there might be secondary questions around the whole thing that can be difficult.

      This is a large collection containing mostly heterosexual legal porn, and a few art books and photographs containing pictures of nude children.

      Too charitable. Some of those art books were really “legal” child erotica, made by convicted child molesters, and usually only really owned by child molesters as collector items. Very rare and expensive. Its includes children with erections and often portrayed in sexualized positions. All the books are NOT that innocent. Its worth mentioning that just innocent nude or half nude innocent pictures of naked children made for innocent reasons can still be quite titillating for a pedophile. Contrary to popular belief pedophiles typically are not turned on by violence or explicit sexual acts towards children. Its often the innocence of the children they are attracted to.

      Most child molester experts will tell you heterosexual pornography is used as grooming material. So that they own doesn’t make them not child molesters, if thats the implication.

      As for him being a great collector of child porn its not a claim that has been popular anyway, so I’m not sure why people are using that as a proof he wasn’t a pedophile. Still, I actually do think he had it. James Safechuck, his 6th accuser, said Michael would show him videos of children masturbating, while Jackson told Safechuck its “not really porn”.

      Someone talking to Anthony Pellicano, a mafia-ish mob guy who worked for Jackson in the 90s who later went to jail, has later said Pellicano claimed Jackson was obsessed with child pornography and implied he covered overt that for Jackson. If this is true it was effectively hidden before the police raids, and there’s signs of it. Bill Dworin, lead investigator in 1993 said he saw obvious gaps in Jackson’s video collection, just like a bunch of films had been removed in a hurry. The police found it suspicious. There’s actually quite clear someone had been in Jacksons rooms before the police, because they trolled the police. The police for example spent endless hours to open a safe in Jackson’s bedroom only to find a letter to them with the safe code. They probably thought they were extremely funny, but by doing that they proved they had been there and probably removed a lot of evidence.

      70 police offisers raided his ranch and that is what they were able to come up with?

      What about finding fingerprints of children on heterosexual porn magazines? Or finding semen from different male’s on Jackson’s mattress?

      • Thale

        Thank you for comprehensive inputs!

        About the Black/White-thing – it is my impression that the portrayal is either evil pedophile / evils with ulterior motives. I think the large focus on his sexuality is unfortunate with regards to his artistic as well as his personal legacy (especially his children). I also believe that it does not help the stigma of pedophilia, nor does it tamper existing taboos and shame male victims of molestation face.

        Again, I must add that I find it disturbing that all this intriguing evidence is available to the public. But I do see the fitting link between pubescent boys – heterosexual porn – moleststion. And as for the sperm, I do not recall ever hearing a credible rumor regarding homosexual relations… So yeah, I hate to say this, but it is probable that boys have been in his bed.

        No matter how fascinsting and disturbing I find the whole “the biggest pop star of the 20th century picked up fan boys, brought them to his amusement park ranch and molested them one after one” genesis, I do not see what good comes out of spreading “the truth about MJ’s sexuality”, and or how highly public law suits will fix possible damages victims suffer.

        • Andreas

          I do not see what good comes out of spreading “the truth about MJ’s sexuality”, and or how highly public law suits will fix possible damages victims suffer.

          What the utility with the world accepting Michael Jackson was a child molester is a seperate question. Not all truths are pleasant or has some purpose of improving the world. I would be surprised if you think we should cover up for all unpleasant truths.

          • Thale

            Whether MJ was a pedophile is not my matter of concern. And whoever wants to look into that may do so. I do find it afflictive that judicial data and investigation files are made public – even if you are a criminal, pedophile, murderer, celebrity, whatever – I honestly see it as a disregard to universal human rights. Personally, I do not see MJ as a good “frontman” for the subject matter of pedophilia, but that is just a thought/an opinion and a whole nother discussion.

          • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

            Strange answer TBH…But what is the issue with needing a “front man” …Why do you need a good or bad front man anyhow? To be frank the book “dangerous liaisons” Written by a pedo does think MJ was a pedo but was a beyond trashy human being besides that, so MJ would be NO help in trying to change the laws that pedos oh so badly want. THEY are looking for a front man to help others see the world “their” way…ICK
            Forgive me but I have NO clue on where you are coming from

          • Thale

            I am not sure if I got your comment correct.
            What you are basically saying is that ignoring signs of MJ’s pedophilia in a sense generates a “normalization” or “acceptance” of such behaviors/traits?

            Pedophilia is by far one of the biggest taboos in the western society today, and l do believe people choose to ignore the subject because it is (like Andreas pointed out) very uncomfortable to dig into.

            I honestly have no clue how the taboo can possibly be broken in the future. Is it an orientation or a paraphilia? I do not believe research is clear on that matter. If it is an orientation, it naturally should not be normalizated in society (like homosexuality) ever, right? Then again, how do people with this “orientation” seek help, how can they go throught life without feeling like a monstrous outcast, or avoid molesting children?

            Then, when MJ is involved in this subject, it further complicates the matter to me.
            I come across a lot of ethical… limitations (in lack of a better word):

            1) Naturally, I cringe when I come across people saying that it is nothing wrong with a middle-aged man sharing a bed with boys. But how does one reason with MJ fans, will it ever be possible, or will it just enhance an ignorance of the existence and different variations of pedophiles? Even today a great majority have a stereotyped view of pedophiles that involves something in the lines of a disgusting old pig, and definitely not a character like MJ.
            2) MJ is foremostly remembered as the King of Pop, but I think even my grandmother would secondly associate him with child molestation. I think the fact that he is dead further makes people uncomfortable with labelling him a pedophile, as you shall not speak ill of the dead.
            3) Should his massive fame be separated from his supposed sexuality? I do feel a level of discomfort when I touch the subject, I find it both intriguing and entertaining, but at the same time I have this feeling that this is none of my business. It is clearly not in anyone’s interest to be massively famous for child molestation. In many ways, I feel like speaking of someone in terms of a pedophile in today’s society is like putting them on a gallow.
            4) Do his supposed victims want this attention upon them? Take Omer Bhatti, for instance. It is my impression that he still thrives on his associations with MJ. He makes his living in the Norwegian entertainment industry, he has fans mostly because “omg, he knew MJ”, he still lives with MJ’s kids in LA from time to time, celebrates christmas with the Jackson’s… Is it anyone’s business other than his to expose the possible (and then quite horrible) truth behind his existence?

          • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

            I am a fan, I can be reasoned with (at least I would like to think so). Yes I know that 99 percent of fans cannot be .That is true..

            If you are not worried about MJ his sexuality or his guilt(or his talents) may I kindly ask why you come to such a site as this? All I can add having lived through the mania is that MJ and his sexuality or lack there of consumed most of the world for a VERY long time…I am talking from the mid 70s til 93.

            One can ignore MJs “traits” or not. You see though fans will go to ANY degree to make anything that MJ did with those kids normal…Heck there are some that state the boys were “lucky” and probably LOVED being touched by MJ..

            And that is not a small percentage of them…A ton support sleeping in bed for 100s of nights alone with many boys or at least they will TRY and rationalize and normalize it and be disgusted with you if you say it was NOT normal and was honestly deranged.

            Some of the victims DO want attention brought upon MJ more so than themselves..

            IMHO yes it is anyone’s biz to try and set the record straight on MJ and his private life which has remained so secret that it would be blessing to have it exposed. He paid his way out of trouble at least twice..and walked away from the trial a free man…I think many of us (no not fans) but those of us that think he more than likely was guilty are bothered that people defend him like they do as well as justice not being served.

            There is a cottage industry that defends MJ no matter what..They lie mix facts with truth and this is allowed to some degree because not everything about MJs life is known to the public….It would be great to finally shut up some of these delusional folks up eventually (though even if there was video of MJ doing anything they would STILL deny at least some of em)

          • Andreas

            The police of Santa Barbara stated they were not responsible for leaking the investigation reports from the raids, nor the Grand Jury transcripts from the 2005 case that ended up on Smoking Gun website. Its unknown how they got leaked.

          • Thale

            Thanks again for clearing up facts, appreciate it 🙂

      • FED UP

        HAHA, there was nothing remarkable about MJ’s music or career, other than him STEALING. He was nothing but a Milli Vanilli. He stole everything creative wise from BOB FOSSE, from his dress style, dance moves step for step, videos, etc. FACT. Everyone knows this. MJ for starters, had no talent, could not sing (sounded like mickey mouse, had very weak vocals) ,didn’t write most his music, and always ranks low in actual talent. Who even listens to his crap music anyway? MJ ONLY KNEW HOW TO MANIPULATE THE PRESS, and by publishing bazaar behavior in the press, tried to keep himself in the news and relevant. This was a known strategy employed by mj and staff to maintain his visibility to the public.

        • Laurie

          Amen to that

          Oh careful what one wishes for, he always wanted to be the best by lying and manipulation well he’s about to again.

          Thank you for truth, have a good day

          • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

            Again more crytpic semi loony talk..”about to again” SMH

  • FED UP

    I truly know a lot of these “fans” are really PAID TROLLS. MJ had plenty resources, etc.
    MJ purposely hired many shady people, to torment, discourage anyone exposing him, including his victims. Why doesn’t anyone talk about that? His paid trolls have been all over the net too, removing unfavorable things. Did you think, with all his resources, he’d lightly go down without a fight?

  • carlos

    I relate to all the fans that have written. Theres literally millions f us,80s kids who became obsessed with him almost like a cult. He was a excape to a world of magic and wonderment and innocent fantasy.He was superhero,but one that truly existed not only in comics. One that you could dream of meeting. We didnt realize he was human.He seemed the purest kind hearted guy in the world.Talented beautiful polite sweet.
    But after the 80s it didnt took Colombo to realize something was wrong with him. Even if you didnt believe the first alegations him selfdestroying his face,his increasing feminine manerism and make upand the whole circus of Debbie rowe and the kids made it difficult even for hardcore fans to stay loyal.We guys started to feel embarrasaed to admit we liked him cause he looked too feminine and weak.It wasnt the BAd video Michael. And girls also had a hard time accepting he was destroying the face and smile they fell in love with in the 80s.
    In my case my life went thorugh a lot of changes growin upmoving from one place to another. And for some reason MJ was the only constant in my life,the only thing that I could hold on to to remember my childhood and teenage years.Everything else was changing but even though he was changing too his voice his music.Just knowing that he was there,somewhere in a 5 star hotel with a mask…it somehow added to my mental stability.I could not destroy his clean image in my mind cause it could mean loose the connection with all those years.I didnt have a home to come back,only the memories his music and videos brought.
    This may sound sad and stupid to some of you who call us fans derogatory names..but…yes that was my life.Feel lucky if yours has been better but I didnt chose it.And MJ was something I could hold on to at very difficult times.His art brought joy.But today Im mature enough to face the fact that he molested kids and portraited a fake innocent persona. Its not easy to swalow I must admit cause hes a big part of my life. But even tough its sad he may have abused those children it would be even more sad if he was innocent.
    Right now Im almost convinced 95% that he molested kids but even tough I think MJ facts has done a remarkable job along with MJand the voys blog.. there are 2 thing MJ facts does not take into consideration. One is how some of you underate MJs talent when record sales awards and critics disagreed for 50 years. Second the same open mind you ask and expect of MJ fans to believe your side of the story..you dont have it. You dont keep an open mind to the possibility of these kids be storting a rich superstar.THeres scrutiny on MJ but not for a single second you doubt the word of these kids .And thats were you fail guys. This website could be the best website regarding MJ legal troubles if you kept an openmind.Instead of that it is labeled as a hating site. So people keep the conversation going…and..Please stop labeling MJ fans cause we have the perfect right to like his music.And its also not our fault to have fall into the master manipulation of MJ.He studied each and every entertainer of the last century in order to perfect his public image and artistry.Everybodys circumstances are different or maybe we are not as smart as you guys are..Excuse me! Im just human.Lot of people gets cheated on on a daily basis so what? does it make us better or worst? whtaver the case we are also victims of his manipulation/ charm however you want to call it.But lets not demonize MJ and his art.I dont think its fair.Astaire didnt invented tap dance adn James Brown also learned those moves from other people. The lines between seduction and manipulation are very slim.Im a guy who never tries to seduce woman by talking sexy making them smile or flirting.Im way too sincere for thatI somehow feel flirting or seducing a woman is actually a manipulation trick.Its playing a game with hidden intentions.Create something an ilusion and a portrait of yourself that most times is not your true self.The world of arts is creating worlds within this one.Create something that makes people aabstract themselves form reality.People use art to get away form their ordinary life.If you want the truth and the real life you got your everyday activities.A theater a movie a concert..is other thing.Michael being exposed to that double reality since a child took elements of that fake reality into his own self and his real everyday life and I think towards the end he was not sure about his own self and reality. i can relate in some way. At the end his story is sad cause he selfdestructed.The laack of phisical affection from his father is what probably led him to his homosexual tendencies.And his strict religious upbringing is what backfired hi thirst for sex pornography and bizarre sexuality.Probably that innocent persona he pushed hard and wanted the world to believe is what he longed to beas oposed to his deeper passions.
    Somehow I still need that 100% confirmation.Cause as much as there is a lot of info in this website it can lead me to think he was a child molester,but I cant yet asure it 100%.I really need to know 100% for sure if he was angel or demon.Somebody could argue it dont matter and I sould move on with my life.But I need that question answered to be able to move on.He was the closest thing to a father that I had.And you cant sleep everynight wondering if your father is an angel or a demon. I need somebody like Mcauly 3T or his children to come out in order to believe it.

    • Laurie

      He was never those things, never admired them.
      He’s a liar and still is. Not to mention a criminal. Yes I know first hand and so do others and has to be told

      Have a good day.

      • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

        First hand? Pray tell us all what you “know” first hand please..

        A liar and STILL is?? You know he died in 09 right? Unless you are part of the beLIEvers club that is…

  • FED UP

    No, that simply is not the truth. What other stars did you see creating a circus in the press? Name them. Esp back in 80’s and 90’s? It is a FAct that MJ used media manipulation schemes to draw attention and keep relevant, and referred to it as “brilliant”. It is known that MJ loved and hunted the press before the victim revelations. This same strategy had been used by no one else.Certainly not at that time. Thats how MJ became so well known, press manipulation.

  • Pea

    I’m confused by the level of ire in this post. If you believe Jacko was such a talentless fraud, why bother even thinking about him? Seems like such a waste of your emotions….

  • Thale

    I am by no means attempting to defend or justify MJ’s, I am just putting my thoughts out there, trying to see subjects from different angles. I appreciate you taking the time to share your point of views, but why so hostile in your tone, dear fed-up.

  • Laurie

    His white socks and short pants on his toes his from Elvis Presley, go watch hound dog

    He’s never been real and wait until the truth comes out.

    Oh some will be so shocked, others not so much.

    Wade Robson speaks volumes of truth.

    He has many silicone disguises.

    Have a good day all

    • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

      Are you trying to write out cryptic messages or is it just me…???

      Silicone disguises?????

      The 40s and 50s style for lots of folks (dancers included) were flood pants with white socks…Was not Elvis as Spurple said more in the line with Kelly. Toe stands(forced arches) were Nicholas Brothers and Elvis along with other tappers in the past yes. MJ knew all this and said as much.

      Most if not all stars have a pretend persona to protect their inner life…It is a must to not be “real” with much in order to survive and thrive in the music biz. You cannot give all of yourself away…This is why many singers have another self they make up..Beyonce (Sasha Fierce) Bowie did it so does Gaga. etc…MJ did that as well but was not as outspoken that it was him “becoming a literal different person” and maybe that is why people believed his “act” was HIM..I get that , but he really cannot be blamed srs.

      He had been putting on that act since Motown….

  • Dani Lee VanBuskirk

    Dance moves are never entirely new nor do they belong to any one person…MJs body and style was his alone..No human can exactly match another in movement NOBODY ..He had his own style combined with old hollywood. His energy and vibe is totally different than Fosse, Brown, Astaire, Kelly, Presely etc.

    He was magic on stage for a large portion of his life. His style was much more aggressive than fosses. Fosse was a brilliant choreographer but if I compare MJ to Fosse in dance…Fosse is much more fem and soft moving…MJ was ALL manly man onstage full on Alpha at least when he was up there. His speed and timing as well when young was unreal. You may not like him or his style but he was SO far from the talent less hack you are trying to describe.. It strikes me as sorta funny..

    .He is the only pop/rock star ever inducted the Dane Hall of Fame…Also he is in the songwriters hall of fame as well…Lets just face it he was a dance legend and just otherworldly in his prime onstage…Most non fans can give him this much.

    VERY few entertainers have/had the level of IT factor that he did…You cannot put 150 thousand people into such a crazy trance if you have NO talent or ability star power or charisma….Saying that is just silly..
    Was MJ the most gifted artist EVER in the history of the world? Of course not, but lets give credit when it is due.

    As far as lipping MJ did not ever lip for the first 25 years of his life (but for tv appearances) remember as a kid he was doing 5 shows a night at the apollo…LIVE.

    I will also admit to the fact that I cannot stand it when he chose to lip on tour….but Destiny, Victory, and Triumph tours was 100 percent life Bad tour (90 percent live second leg 1st leg no lipping) so you are not really telling the whole truth there.

    His voice..Well it is rated pretty high by most…But I will not lie his style was hard on his voice and it was a thin voice combined with aggressive sounds and dance made it worse…Yet even if you do not know a certain MJ song if it came on the radio anyone would be able to guess it was him in 30 seconds…It was a unique voice and that is was made it so effective.

    As far as naming people who used the press…Beatles, Madge, Prince, George Micheal(hell Wam totally manipulated the press they went to commie china and performed when nobody in china knew were they were.. IT was a PR stunt and it got them press the world over) I could go on but really is there point?.. I think most sane folks understand that PR stunts and using the media is something every star does…IT is just how it is.

    .Now I will admit MJ did leak those silly stories about the o2 chambers and bones…Then acted so upset about it…That was a game yes but not one that had not been played at least to a degree before…We do have to remember that MJ was probably the FIRST PLANET WIDE superstar…The media was just starting to get more involved in entertainers personal lives….And MJ and team were ready to use the media as they saw fit. MJ going full on recluse was part of it. he knew it would just add to the hysteria when he showed his face a couple times a year……IT worked but it later bit him in the ass.

    He played the media but a tad differently than you are making it sound…He gave NO interviews for 13 years..Imagine he is the biggest star on the planet and he does not go on late night shows, he does not give interviews other than a couple mins here and there that were just about music. He knew he was getting overexposed and he never wanted to add to it. At least in the 80s…I think doing that was a stroke of genius on his part…He wanted to seem mysterious…AND it worked that is all that really matters when it comes down to it…IMO

    Yep, MJ even as early as off the wall would not give credit to some of his band members when they came up with new sounds…He denied more than a few people in that respect.. Yet Billie Jean was all his. Most of his Bad album he wrote on his own.

    MJs later career did get stagnant…He got lazy he was using tons of dope…But still crazed fans would go to any show lipped or with the same dance moves same set list, any day of the week..Some say they would pay out their ears to watch him sleep onstage(and MJ knew this so did not put in any extra work …blame the fans more so than him they did not care what he did)…Those are the more out there types though.

    I think what Pea is getting at here is you seem very emotional in your negative view of MJs talent and she is wondering why you would ever have been interested enough to (half ass) research his life or show up on this site ..You would just be indifferent but that is not how your posts come across, not by a long shot.. You seem to DESPISE his talent as if it eats you up inside..And you cannot wait to embellish most of what you are saying to make him seem like a TOTAL fraud trickster and thief.. Hip thrusts, high leg kicks and toe stands cannot be “stolen”..So whatever your basing your thoughts on is faulty.