Evan Chandler Phone Transcript With David Schwartz

In 1996, when Evan Chandler sued Jackson for breaching the confidentiality terms of their settlement, this transcript came to light. It was phone conversations secretly recorded by Jordan Chandler’s stepfather Dave Schwartz in 1993, at Jackson’s private investigator Anthony Pellicano’s behest. Portions of this conversation, taken out of context, are often used by fans to “prove” Evan Chandler was “extorting” Michael Jackson.

A full read shows rather a father who is concerned about his son, angry that he hasn’t been able to see Jordan for six weeks due to Jackson’t undue influence, and the pain at the loss of the close, co-operative friendship he had with his ex-wife June Chandler.

It’s a long read but well worth it when it comes to understanding Evan Chandler. Nothing has been left out.







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1 I N D E X























































2 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:


4 MR. CHANDLER: — discuss why it might

5 be harmful.

6 Suppose I’m right? I mean if Michael

7 loves [tape irregularity] Lisa at least want to

8 hear my opinion about why what’s going on could be

9 potentially harmful? If you love somebody, you

10 don’t want them to get hurt.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk it

12 in front of Jordy, about that?


14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want to talk

15 about that in front of Jordy?

16 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

17 He has to be there.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: He has to be there, and

20 one of the reasons that he has to be there is

21 because he’s always gonna remember it. Somebody

22 has to be the — there’s gotta be some one person

23 that later on in life he can look back on and kind

24 of pattern himself after someone or have some

25 structure for his own existence, based on — he’ll



1 look at me, and he’ll say, “Yeah. He was honest,

2 he had integrity, he had respect. I could trust

3 him. He never lied to me,” all that kind of stuff.

4 He may hate me now. He may not be able

5 to articulate all of those things in his own head

6 right now, but when he sees it, it’ll be in his

7 head, and when he’s old enough there will be those

8 things that will be important to him. Hopefully

9 I’ll be able to portray those things to him,

10 because I think they’re important.

11 I also think it’s incredibly important

12 to have somebody else in your life that really

13 loves you and you really love them because if

14 you’re [tape irregularity] happy.

15 I’ve never seen a single solo, isolated

16 human being who was truly happy —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s what’s

19 going to happen to Jordy.

20 I think that’s June’s situation.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: June has nobody. You

23 tell me who June has. You tell me who June has who

24 really loves her, who she really loves back, you

25 can’t think of one person.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I can.


3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria.

4 MR. CHANDLER: Gloria.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Really.

6 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

7 inaudible.)

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Gloria, Nadine or Florence.

9 She’s pretty close with her friends.

10 MR. CHANDLER: Nah, she’s —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: She’s — wait.

12 MR. CHANDLER: She believes that —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: She’s close with you.

14 MR. CHANDLER: — four or five cups of

15 caffeine in the morning and gets on the phone and

16 yaps (inaudible) all day, you commiserate about

17 their miseries —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, here’s

19 the whole thing. We can’t, you know, I can’t put

20 her down that all she’s doing is hanging out. It’s

21 not so horrible.

22 MR. CHANDLER: That what?

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: That, you know, I mean,

24 she’s into hanging out.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out is okay.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. She’s —

2 MR. CHANDLER: Hanging out’s kind of a

3 benign thing. She’s not hanging out anymore. When

4 she stopped hanging out —


6 MR. CHANDLER: — and became actively

7 destructive in Jordy’s life is when I stepped in

8 and when I decided I have to do something about it.

9 I tried to talk to her about it, Dave,

10 on several occasions.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we know she’s hard

12 to talk to.

13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you could — if

14 you could — yes. I mean, that’s unquestionable.

15 She is impossible to talk to. And I’ve never

16 really — I mean, I’ve gotten angry with her many

17 times and —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity]

20 long as you’ve stepped in —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — the issue has never

23 involved potentially harming Jordy for the rest of

24 his life —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: [Tape irregularity.]



1 MR. CHANDLER: — issues over Jordy

2 before that I’ve backed down —


4 MR. CHANDLER: — because you asked me

5 to or whatever the reason was —


7 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’ve never

8 been — I’ve never been that set on pursuing it

9 until now because I truly believe this will damage

10 him for the rest of his life. And she will

11 not — and I’ve told her that, and I’ve tried to

12 talk to her about that —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’s not willing

15 to talk to me about it.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t even want to

18 hear what might be harming him.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: She doesn’t want to

21 even know — she doesn’t want to hear any words.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What if —

23 MR. CHANDLER: “Get out of my face.

24 Don’t even mention that.” That’s not an issue for

25 her.



1 I mean, what kind of person is that?

2 If — I stopped taking that personally.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, we all have

4 different ways of coping.

5 MR. CHANDLER: You see, as an adult,

6 coping’s no excuse. That’s like driving drunk and

7 saying, “I’m sorry, but I didn’t realize there was

8 a law against driving drunk” and you just ran on

9 the sidewalk.

10 The fact is you’re a responsible adult.

11 You’re supposed to have some sense and judgment,

12 and that’s how it’s going to go down.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. How about if you,

14 June and I get together?

15 MR. CHANDLER: No. Why do you keep

16 doing that?

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I don’t — I

18 don’t want to subject Jordy to this until — I

19 mean, I feel very uncomfortable —

20 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you

21 this way: I have a set routine of words that I’m

22 going to go in there that have been rehearsed and

23 I’m going to say.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Because I don’t



1 want to say anything that could be used against me.


3 MR. CHANDLER: So I know exactly what I

4 can say. That’s why I’m bringing the tape

5 recorder.


7 MR. CHANDLER: I have some things on

8 paper to show a few people —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s it. My

11 whole part is going to take two or three minutes,

12 and I’m going to turn around [tape irregularity],

13 and that’s it. There’s not going to be anything

14 said, other than what I’ve been told to say —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’m going to turn

17 around and leave, and they’re going to have a

18 decision to make.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: And based on that

21 decision, I’ll decide whether or not we’re going to

22 talk again or whether it’s going to go further.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: I have to make a phone

25 call. As soon as I leave the house, I get on the



1 telephone.


3 MR. CHANDLER: I make a phone call.


5 MR. CHANDLER: Say “Go” or I say,

6 “Don’t go yet,” and that’s —


8 MR. CHANDLER: — the way it’s gonna to

9 be.

10 I’ve been told what to do, and I have

11 to do it.

12 I’m not — I happen to know what’s

13 going to be going on, see? They don’t have to say

14 anything to me. [Tape irregularity] “you have

15 refused to listen to me. Now you’re going to have

16 to listen to me. This is my position. Give it a

17 thought.”

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: “Think it over.”

20 I’m not saying anything bad about

21 anybody, okay? I’ve got it all on paper.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: I’m going to hand out

24 the paper so that I don’t inadvertently [tape

25 irregularity], handing out the paper, “Michael,



1 here’s your paper. June, here’s your paper.”


3 MR. CHANDLER: “Compare papers. Read

4 this whole thing. This is my feelings about it.

5 Do you want to talk further? We’ll talk again.”


7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you don’t” [tape

8 irregularity] — but, see, all I’m trying to do

9 now, they have forced me to go [tape irregularity]

10 on paper and give it to them to read —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — because [tape

13 irregularity]. I mean, isn’t that pitiful?

14 Now, why would they want to cut me out,

15 to go this far, spend this much money, spend so

16 much time in my life crying, being away from my

17 practice, not paying [tape irregularity] everybody

18 else? Why would they want to put me through that?

19 And I made it very clear to June that she was

20 putting me through that because I didn’t want any

21 misunderstandings. I’ve done everything I could to

22 appeal to her. (Inaudible) is cold and heart- —

23 absolutely cold and heartless. That’s all —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, maybe on the

25 surface it appears like that, but I —



1 MR. CHANDLER: I know on the surface

2 June is charming —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, no. I think on the

4 surface it might appear cold, but I don’t — I

5 don’t agree with that.

6 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, “Go fuck yourself”

7 is not a surface reaction.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Have you

9 ever — you mean you have never done that, right?

10 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

11 inaudible) and they say “Go fuck yourself,” that’s

12 not a surface —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: You’ve never done it?

14 MR. CHANDLER: — sorry.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: You’ve never done it? I

16 mean, have you ever got pissed at a friend and

17 gotten in an argument for three weeks?

18 MR. CHANDLER: No, no, no.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Never, ever?

20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

21 inaudible) — like that, Dave, not consistently

22 like that.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

24 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

25 inaudible) — so far as to go to say, “Okay.



1 Forget about me. This is what’s going on with

2 Jordan. This is my concern,” and have her say “Go

3 fuck yourself” again. So [tape irregularity] there

4 I said, “This is not a human being I’m dealing with

5 anymore.”

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you

7 this — I mean, did you give Jordy any ultimatums?


9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Because, see,

10 that’s how he feels trapped, I think.

11 MR. CHANDLER: Too bad.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why — I mean —

13 MR. CHANDLER: All he has to do is talk

14 to me about it.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but how can

16 you — I mean, you know what you could do — I

17 mean, couldn’t you approach it like saying, “Jordy,

18 this is how I feel. This is why communications is

19 important. We gotta discuss this.”

20 MR. CHANDLER: This is what I said to

21 Jordy. I said, “What if I asked you not to do

22 something?” That’s how I put it.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: He said, “I wouldn’t

25 care.”




2 MR. CHANDLER: That’s what he said.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what’s wrong with

4 that?

5 MR. CHANDLER: What’s wrong?

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean, what is

7 wrong with that?

8 MR. CHANDLER: Well, let me ask you

9 this: Never in his life, ever, would he

10 have — did he ever respond that way or would he

11 have ever responded that way —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

13 MR. CHANDLER: — which means that

14 something has happened inside of him and in his

15 life that is now making him respond to me in a

16 totally different way. What has happened to him?

17 His mother’s changed, and Michael’s in his life,

18 and you weren’t there to balance it out. And

19 that’s it.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, and I wasn’t

21 there, and you’re right.

22 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I wasn’t there to

24 discuss it with him.

25 MR. CHANDLER: So the whole thing



1 happened.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

3 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s it.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: So blame me.

5 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, I’m not blaming you.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it is my fault.

7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

8 inaudible).

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s my fault. I wasn’t

10 there to —

11 MR. CHANDLER: No, no. You don’t

12 understand. We’re gonna see whose fault it is.

13 And I’m gonna tell you: It isn’t up to you to

14 decide whose fault it is or up to me to decide

15 whose fault it is. Other people who are trained to

16 [tape irregularity] whose fault it is are going to

17 make that decision, and I’ll bet you anything that

18 they don’t decide that it’s your fault. You’re not

19 going to get blamed, and you can go and say

20 whatever you want. No one’s [tape irregularity]

21 they may say, “That’s very nice. Get the fuck out

22 of here, and let’s get down to the real issues,”

23 but that’s it. That’s what’s going to happen. I’m

24 not getting blamed and you’re not getting blamed.

25 And that’s — I mean —



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: But no one should get

2 blamed. I mean —

3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

4 inaudible) talking about bottom line because that’s

5 what it’s really going to come down to —


7 MR. CHANDLER: — bottom line, no one’s

8 gonna give a shit about you in this issue.


10 MR. CHANDLER: So when you tell me that

11 I should blame you, that’s not the bottom line.

12 That’s not how it’s going to be seen (simultaneous,

13 inaudible).

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: But does there have to

15 be where someone’s at fault? Can’t it be where we

16 just work it out?

17 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you see — yeah.

18 That’s why I tried to get in touch with them, to

19 (simultaneous, inaudible) work it out —

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well, but

21 that’s — wait.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — but they don’t want

23 to talk to me.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Well, that’s not

25 true. That is not true.



1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

2 inaudible) till tomorrow —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Have you ever gone

4 through a period where you just didn’t — wait. Of

5 course you have. Of course you have.

6 MR. CHANDLER: Dave —

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: When I screamed at

8 Monique to get you to call me.

9 MR. CHANDLER: So what? That was one

10 day. Two days.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it didn’t

12 matter — it can’t count the days.

13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I have to count

14 the days because I can’t let it go on forever.

15 By the way, they’re going on tour on

16 August 15th. They’re going to be gone. They’re

17 going to be out of the country —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: — for four months.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is that bad?

21 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I’m not going to

22 be able to communicate with them about this when

23 they’re gone, am I?

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, but you think

25 that —



1 MR. CHANDLER: By the way, they’re not

2 going.


4 MR. CHANDLER: They don’t know that

5 yet, but they are not going.


7 MR. CHANDLER: So, I mean, especially

8 if they don’t show up tomorrow, they’re definitely

9 not going. They’ll be lucky if Michael even —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you — let me

11 ask you this —

12 MR. CHANDLER: — tour (inaudible) get

13 canceled.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me — let me

15 ask you this: I mean, why can’t you meet — why

16 can’t we meet after I get off work?

17 MR. CHANDLER: Because —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, why not? What’s

19 the difference?

20 MR. CHANDLER: Seems to me it’s not

21 important enough for you to take off work to be —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: It is important enough,

23 but I still —

24 MR. CHANDLER: Fuck your job.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.



1 MR. CHANDLER: It’s still going to be

2 there at 8:35. This whole thing’s going to take

3 five minutes.


5 MR. CHANDLER: I’ve already told you I

6 have — I’m not allowed to say anything more —


8 MR. CHANDLER: — than I’ve already

9 prepared. It’s on paper.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it your —

11 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going in to —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it because of your

13 attorney?

14 MR. CHANDLER: What?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because of your

16 attorney?

17 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why don’t we meet at

19 your attorney’s office?

20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s something

21 we can do if we get past tomorrow.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: He’s willing to meet

24 with them. Right now he’d like to kill them all.

25 I picked the nastiest mother-fucker I could find.




2 MR. CHANDLER: The only reason that I’m

3 meeting with them tomorrow is, the real fact of the

4 matter is —


6 MR. CHANDLER: — because of Monique.


8 MR. CHANDLER: Monique begged me to do

9 it.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: She said, “You’re out of

12 control” —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can Monique be there?

14 MR. CHANDLER: Tomorrow?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: She wanted to be there,

17 but —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I want her to be there.

19 MR. CHANDLER: I wouldn’t let her.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why not?

21 MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates

22 Monique.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not true.

24 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know

25 something?



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: That is not true —


3 MR. SCHWARTZ: — at all.

4 MR. CHANDLER: Well, really! Well,

5 then that makes Jordy a liar, and that makes

6 Michael a liar.


8 MR. CHANDLER: They both told me that

9 Monique — that June —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. You can’t see

11 that whole thing?

12 MR. CHANDLER: What?

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s woman jealousy.

14 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care what —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t matter —

16 MR. CHANDLER: The problem is you’re in

17 love with her so you keep on making excuses.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.

19 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not in love with her

20 anymore. I don’t even like her anymore.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t know about

22 female jealousy?

23 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t care about that.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: That has nothing —

25 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) Dave.



1 That’s pathologic. I don’t want that affecting —

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s not pathologic.

3 That is the bottom line.

4 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

5 inaudible) pathologic. I don’t care what the

6 reason is. I don’t care. I’m not playing

7 psychiatrist and analyzing.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why wouldn’t you

9 want Monique there? I would feel much more

10 comfortable.

11 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

12 inaudible), that’s why.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?

14 MR. CHANDLER: Because June hates her,

15 so I don’t want to —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: She does not hate her.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Of course she hates her.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: She totally respects her

19 and doesn’t hate her.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, Jordy is a

21 liar and Michael (inaudible) —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait, wait.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — because they told me

24 verbatim, together —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?



1 MR. CHANDLER: — that June hates

2 Monique.

3 In fact, they went even further and

4 told me several of the things that June said about

5 Monique.


7 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? Now, maybe they

8 went back and told June that Monique said things

9 about her and —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: — (inaudible) lied.

12 Maybe they’re lying. I don’t know. But knowing

13 June, I don’t think that they lied. I think

14 they’re telling me the truth.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: And I want Monique out

17 of this completely.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: Because all that will

20 happen is that June will convince Jordy that

21 Monique’s a bad person and by her presence there

22 she must have put me up to this whole thing —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: — and June will

25 fabricate some great lie —




2 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

3 inaudible) I’m only going there because of Monique,

4 because, to tell you the truth, Dave, it would be a

5 lot easier for me and a lot more satisfying —


7 MR. CHANDLER: — to see everybody get

8 destroyed —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — like they’ve

11 destroyed me, but it would be a lot easier.

12 And Monique just kept telling me, “You

13 don’t want to really do this,” and she finally

14 [tape irregularity] for the sake of everything that

15 we’ve all had in the past —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: — to give it one more

18 try, and that’s the only reason, because this

19 attorney I found — I mean, I interviewed several,

20 and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — I could find, and all

23 he wants to do is get this out in the public as

24 fast as he can, as big as he can —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: — and humiliate as many

2 people as he can, and he’s got a bad [tape

3 irregularity] —

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s

5 good?

6 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

7 inaudible) he’s costing me a lot of money.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s

9 good?

10 MR. CHANDLER: I think that’s great. I

11 think it’s terrific. The best. Because when

12 somebody — when somebody tells you that they don’t

13 want to talk to you —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — you have to talk to

16 them —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — you have to get their

19 attention. It’s a matter of life and death.

20 That’s how I’m taking it. I have to talk to them.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: This is life and death

23 for my son. I have to get their attention. If I

24 don’t get it, if I haven’t gotten it on the phone

25 and I don’t get it tomorrow —




2 MR. CHANDLER: — this guy will

3 certainly get it. That’s the next step. And you

4 want to know something? I even have somebody after

5 him if he doesn’t [tape irregularity]. But I don’t

6 want [tape malfunctioned]. I’m not kidding. I

7 mean what I told you before.


9 MR. CHANDLER: It’s true. I mean, it

10 could be a massacre if I don’t get what I want.

11 But I do believe this person will get what he

12 wants.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: So he would just really

15 love [tape irregularity] nothing better than to

16 have this go forward. He is nasty, he is mean —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — he is very smart

19 [tape irregularity], and he’s hungry for the

20 publicity [tape irregularity] better for him.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s where it’ll

23 go —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think everyone

25 loses?



1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

2 inaudible) totally humiliate him in every way —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: That — everyone doesn’t

4 lose in that?

5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s not the issue.

6 See, the issue is that if I have to go that far —


8 MR. CHANDLER: — I can’t stop and

9 think “Who wins and who loses?”

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: All I can think about is

12 I only have one goal, and the goal is to get their

13 attention —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — so that [tape

16 irregularity] concerns are, and as long as they

17 don’t want to talk to me, I can’t tell them what my

18 concerns are, so I have to go step by step, each

19 time escalating the attention-getting mechanism,

20 and that’s all I regard him as, as an

21 attention-getting mechanism.

22 Unfortunately, after that, it’s totally

23 out of [tape irregularity]. It’ll take on so much

24 momentum of its own that it’s going to be out of

25 all our control. It’s going to be monumentally



1 huge, and I’m not going to have any way to stop it.

2 No one else is either at that point. I mean, once

3 I make that phone call, this guy’s just going to

4 destroy everybody in site in any devious, nasty,

5 cruel way that he can do it. And I’ve given him

6 full authority to do that.

7 To go beyond tomorrow, that would mean

8 I have done every possible thing in my individual

9 power to tell them to sit down and talk to me; and

10 if they still [tape irregularity], I got to

11 escalate the attention-getting mechanism. He’s the

12 next one. I can’t go to somebody nice [tape

13 irregularity]. It doesn’t work with them. I

14 already found that out. Get some niceness and just

15 go fuck yourself.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Basically, what they

18 have to know, ultimately, is that their lives are

19 over, if they don’t sit down. One way or the

20 other, it’ll either go to the next step or the

21 [tape irregularity]. I’m not stopping until I get

22 their attention.

23 Do I [tape irregularity] the only goal

24 is right now I have to do what I think is best for

25 Jordy —




2 MR. CHANDLER: — and I think what’s

3 going on now is bad for Jordy, and therefore any

4 alternative is better.

5 If I’m wrong, they should sit down, and

6 they should tell me why I’m wrong.



9 MR. SCHWARTZ: So wouldn’t you sit down

10 with me, and we could discuss it first?

11 MR. CHANDLER: No, because you don’t

12 know the issues.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you could tell

14 me.

15 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

16 inaudible) totally ignorant of all the issues.

17 No. There’s really no way you could

18 relate these to somebody, you know.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah? Well, sure you

20 could.

21 MR. CHANDLER: Like it’ll get related.

22 It’ll get related, you know. You’ll see it.

23 You’ll see it, and it’s not going to be up for me

24 or you to decide.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can you meet him here at



1 work?

2 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, no. I’m going to

3 meet at the house.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why can’t you meet here?

5 MR. CHANDLER: Well, for one thing,

6 Michael has to be there.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Michael will

8 come.

9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

10 inaudible) won’t be at Rent a Wreck.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael would come here.

12 MR. CHANDLER: Well, how do you know

13 that?

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll see. I mean, if

15 he’ll come here, will you do it here?

16 MR. CHANDLER: No. Why?

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because it’s easier for

18 me.

19 MR. CHANDLER: So you could be at work?

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. So I don’t have to

21 leave.

22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

23 inaudible) signals.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?

25 MR. CHANDLER: You keep giving me



1 these —

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not crossed

3 signals. I’m telling you it’s — I’m here every

4 second. It’s difficult to get away.

5 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you have to get

6 your priorities —

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but my priority is

8 this, but, I mean, you can compromise for me.

9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

10 inaudible) tell me this is very difficult choice,

11 you know, your children or your work.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, it’s not a

13 difficult choice.

14 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: But it’s just —

16 MR. CHANDLER: — the issue, then. Be

17 it —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: It makes it — wait.

19 What’s the difference —

20 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

21 inaudible) work by 9:00 o’clock.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What is the difference

23 for you? I mean, it makes it easier for me. Is it

24 different for you?

25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Why is it

2 different?

3 MR. CHANDLER: What if I told you their

4 house was wired?


6 MR. CHANDLER: Does that make a

7 difference?


9 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not saying it is.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: I’m just saying, “What

12 if it was?”

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, well —

14 MR. CHANDLER: Would that — would

15 you — could you see the [tape irregularity].

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Then you want to

17 record it.

18 MR. CHANDLER: Let’s just say that it

19 is.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: Let’s just say that.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

23 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not saying it is.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

25 MR. CHANDLER: But let’s just say that



1 it was. Okay? That would make a difference.

2 (Inaudible)?

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. You got to do me

4 one favor.


6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. The way we’ve

7 just talked is completely — the way you’ve sounded

8 is completely different than when I talked to you

9 the first time. I mean, you gotta be —

10 MR. CHANDLER: Well, (inaudible)

11 talking tomorrow, Dave.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?

13 MR. CHANDLER: I told you, it’s all on

14 paper.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: That’s why I’m bringing

17 a tape recorder.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but are you going

19 to be calm like this?

20 MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to say.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not going to be

23 calm. I’m not going to be anything. I’m not going

24 to be — I’m going to be totally void of anything.

25 I’m just going to say, “Look. Here’s something for



1 you guys to read. You read it. You think it

2 over.”


4 MR. CHANDLER: “If you want to sit down

5 and talk, we can all meet in my attorney’s office.”


7 MR. CHANDLER: “If you want to tell me

8 to go fuck myself, then just let me know that” —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — “and I’ll let him

11 know that’s what your feelings are.”

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why do you —

13 MR. CHANDLER: — and that has

14 to — that has to happen before 12:00 o’clock

15 tomorrow. They have to make that decision —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And let me ask

17 you this —

18 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

19 inaudible) don’t hear from them about it, then the

20 wheels start —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you have to have

22 Jordy there, if all we’re going to do is read it?

23 MR. CHANDLER: I tried to explain that

24 to you.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. If we have to read



1 something.

2 MR. CHANDLER: Because I explained that

3 to you. I want him to see how I’m behaving.


5 MR. CHANDLER: I want him to see how

6 I’m acting.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you

8 have to have Michael there?

9 MR. CHANDLER: What’s that beeping

10 going on? Do you hear that?

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: Are you recording this?


14 MR. CHANDLER: Do you hear the beeping?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: Well, let’s hang up.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

18 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.


20 —o0o—

21 ///

22 ///

23 ///






2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 CUSTOMER: This is for a — how do you

5 guys do — a mid-sized —

6 SALESMAN: Well, what is it you need?

7 CUSTOMER: I would just like to rent.

8 SALESMAN: But I mean do you need a

9 particular size car?


11 SALESMAN: No? Okay.

12 CUSTOMER: Affordable one.

13 SALESMAN: Okay. When do you need it?

14 CUSTOMER: For next week.

15 SALESMAN: All right. And do you know

16 how many days you need it for?

17 CUSTOMER: Probably would be a week or

18 two.

19 SALESMAN: Okay. Are you going to

20 travel just in L.A. or —

21 CUSTOMER: Yeah, just L.A.

22 SALESMAN: — all over the place?

23 All right. We would have — well, the

24 price starts weekly at 139 per week. If you want

25 something bigger or newer, the price would go up a


1 little bit.

2 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

3 SALESMAN: And you’re under 25, so

4 there is a charge of $10 per day —


6 SALESMAN: — in addition to the rate.

7 CUSTOMER: Okay. And what kind of cars

8 do you have?

9 SALESMAN: All different kinds of cars.

10 Basically what we do is we let you select from

11 what’s available, but the price does start at 139

12 per week.

13 CUSTOMER: For every car there, or —

14 SALESMAN: No, no. That’s — the price

15 starts at 139. If you want something, like I said,

16 a little newer or bigger, then the price would go

17 up.

18 CUSTOMER: Okay. So, like, you guys

19 are right here on Pico —

20 SALESMAN: Right, uh-huh.

21 CUSTOMER: Okay. Now, I thought that

22 you guys had like a Lincoln Continental, the old —

23 SALESMAN: We’re selling that one.

24 CUSTOMER: Oh, you’re selling that.

25 SALESMAN: Right.



1 CUSTOMER: Okay. What about the big

2 Cadillacs that you have out there? How much —

3 SALESMAN: We have those, but they’re

4 about $500 a day.

5 CUSTOMER: $500 a day?

6 SALESMAN: Yeah. And you got to be 25

7 to rent them, too.

8 CUSTOMER: Oh yeah?


10 CUSTOMER: So what will be the car that

11 I will be —

12 SALESMAN: Oh, something — looks like

13 a regular car, like a Chevy Cavalier or something.

14 CUSTOMER: Oh, okay. And that will go

15 for 139?

16 SALESMAN: Yeah. They start at 139 per

17 week, right.

18 CUSTOMER: Okay. All right.

19 SALESMAN: Plus $10 a day.

20 CUSTOMER: Yeah. Fine. $10 a day.

21 That’s cool. That’s cool. And is it unlimited

22 miles or —

23 SALESMAN: Each week you get 500 miles

24 free.

25 CUSTOMER: 500 miles free?



1 SALESMAN: Right.

2 CUSTOMER: Cool. Cool. Okay. Well,

3 cool.

4 SALESMAN: Let us know if we can help

5 you, though, okay?

6 CUSTOMER: All right. Thank you.

7 SALESMAN: Thanks. Bye-bye.


9 —o0o—

10 ///

11 ///

12 ///

















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you,

5 please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes. David?

7 SALESMAN: This is Salesman. Dave is on

8 the other line right now.

9 CUSTOMER: Oh, (inaudible) on the other

10 line. Okay. Well —

11 SALESMAN: Can you hold on, please?

12 CUSTOMER: Sure.

13 (Music playing.)

14 SALESMAN: Yes. Can I take a message and

15 have David call you back?

16 CUSTOMER: Yeah. Could you please tell him

17 to call me at 310-000-0000?

18 SALESMAN: 000-0000?

19 CUSTOMER: Yeah. My name is CUSTOMER.

20 SALESMAN: Okay, Customer. I will have him

21 call you. He knows what it’s about, Customer?

22 CUSTOMER: I suppose so. Yeah. It’s

23 about — it’s about the Chrysler convertible.

24 SALESMAN: Okay. Is that 213, Customer?

25 CUSTOMER: No. 310.



1 SALESMAN: Okay. I’ll have him call you.


3 SALESMAN: Thank you, sir.

4 CUSTOMER: Bye-bye.

5 SALESMAN: Bye-Bye.

6 —o0o—

7 ///

8 ///

9 ///




















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Right. I was wondering how old

7 you had to be to rent a car —

8 SALESMAN: Is it for you?


10 SALESMAN: How old are you?

11 CUSTOMER: I’m 18.

12 SALESMAN: 18. Do you have a credit

13 card of your own?


15 SALESMAN: You do?


17 SALESMAN: How about car insurance?

18 Are you covered on anyone’s insurance policy right

19 now?

20 CUSTOMER: I believe I am.

21 SALESMAN: Okay. When do you need the

22 car?

23 CUSTOMER: Today.

24 SALESMAN: Today? Let me do this:

25 Give me your name and number, and I’ll have the



1 manager, Dave, call you right back. Maybe we — I

2 think we probably can work it out for you, though.


4 SALESMAN: What’s your name?

5 CUSTOMER: Customer.

6 SALESMAN: Okay, Customer. Your phone

7 number is?

8 CUSTOMER: It’s seven — oh, it’s 213 —

9 SALESMAN: 213.

10 CUSTOMER: 000 —

11 SALESMAN: 000.

12 CUSTOMER: — 0000.

13 SALESMAN: Okay. Dave is going to call

14 you back in just a few minutes, okay?

15 CUSTOMER: Okay.

16 SALESMAN: Thanks, Customer. Bye-Bye.

17 —o0o—

18 ///

19 ///

20 ///









2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you

5 please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yeah. Can you give me some

7 rental information, please?


9 CUSTOMER: On a one-week rental for a

10 budget car?

11 SALESMAN: Sure. Starting when did you

12 need it?

13 CUSTOMER: For today.

14 SALESMAN: For local use right here in

15 the city, or are you taking a trip someplace?

16 CUSTOMER: No. It’s around the city.

17 SALESMAN: Okay. Are you at least 25,

18 sir?

19 CUSTOMER: I’m 25, but I don’t have a

20 credit card. My girlfriend does, and she’s 23.

21 SALESMAN: She’s 23. She’s — do you

22 own a car right now?

23 CUSTOMER: Do I own a car?


25 CUSTOMER: No, sir.



1 SALESMAN: Because for me to —

2 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible) I.D.’s —

3 SALESMAN: I can rent a car to your

4 girlfriend, but I couldn’t put your name on the

5 contract unless you had car insurance or a credit

6 card.

7 CUSTOMER: Okay. Could you rent it to

8 her?

9 SALESMAN: Yeah. Being that she’s under

10 the age of 25, it’s an additional charge of $10 per

11 day for the car. The car itself will start at $119

12 a day, plus the $10 charge per day. That would be

13 for a little compact or a mid-sized used car.

14 CUSTOMER: Okay. Can you work out what a

15 weekly rental —

16 SALESMAN: Yeah. The 119 charge plus

17 sales tax makes it — plus seven days — 198.

18 CUSTOMER: 198?

19 SALESMAN: Yes, sir.

20 CUSTOMER: That’s with the $10 and

21 everything, right?

22 SALESMAN: And the sales tax, yes.

23 That’s everything in there.

24 CUSTOMER: 198 per week.

25 Okay. How do I get to you? I’m



1 at — I’m on — what is the street? I’m on Lincoln

2 close to Pico.

3 SALESMAN: You’re on Lincoln close to

4 Pico? Are you calling from a residence, or where

5 are you calling from?

6 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible) from a pay phone.

7 I’m at a motel here.

8 SALESMAN: Okay. Is your girlfriend

9 there with you?

10 CUSTOMER: Yes, she is.

11 SALESMAN: Okay. Because (inaudible) we

12 can pick you guys up free of charge.

13 CUSTOMER: Oh, you could, eh?

14 SALESMAN: Yeah.

15 CUSTOMER: And we’d come down there for

16 the paperwork?

17 SALESMAN: Yeah. We come down. We’ll

18 show you a few used cars and put you right back on

19 the road again.

20 CUSTOMER: What kind of cars are they?

21 SALESMAN: They’re used cars in the early

22 ’80s and the mid-’80s. Could be Chevys, Hondas,

23 Buicks, Toyotas. They don’t look all that great.

24 They’re kind of average looking, nothing fancy, but

25 they’re all clean and reliable and run fantastic



1 for you.

2 CUSTOMER: There’s no problem her being

3 23?

4 SALESMAN: No, sir.

5 CUSTOMER: Okay. Let me grab her, just

6 take a shower and stuff. How long will it take you

7 guys to come down?

8 SALESMAN: Five minutes we’ll be there.

9 Tell you what. Let me give you my 800

10 number here. Are you calling me on that number?

11 CUSTOMER: Okay. I don’t got a pen or

12 nothing. Could I call you back on this 478 number?

13 SALESMAN: Yeah. You’ll probably just

14 have to pay for it. That’s all.

15 What’s your name?

16 CUSTOMER: Customer.

17 SALESMAN: Okay, Customer.Give me a call

18 back. We’ll come get you.

19 CUSTOMER: All right.

20 SALESMAN: Okay?

21 CUSTOMER: Thanks.


23 —o0o—

24 ///

25 ///




2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yeah. What would be the

7 cheapest convertible that you would have available

8 today and tomorrow?

9 SALESMAN: I can’t answer that, but I’d

10 be glad to have David call you right back. He

11 handles all of our convertibles.

12 CUSTOMER: Fine. Okay.

13 SALESMAN: Yeah. What’s your name,

14 please?

15 CUSTOMER: Customer.

16 SALESMAN: Okay, Customer. And your phone

17 number is?

18 CUSTOMER: 310.


20 CUSTOMER: 000 —

21 SALESMAN: Whoops. Hold on. I got a

22 problem with my phone cord here.

23 Let’s see. 310.

24 CUSTOMER: Don’t hurt yourself.

25 310 —




2 CUSTOMER: 000.

3 SALESMAN: 000.

4 CUSTOMER: 0000.

5 SALESMAN: 0000. Okay. I’ll have

6 David call you right back. Thanks.

7 —o0o—

8 ///

9 ///

10 ///



















2 between Salesman and Man and

3 between David Schwartz and Man:


5 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

6 you, please?

7 MAN: Yeah. My name is

8 Man. I was speaking with someone there

9 a few days ago. I’m working on a movie, and I’m

10 looking for a van.

11 SALESMAN: Certainly. Can you hold on,

12 Mr. Man?

13 MAN: Sure.

14 SALESMAN: Thanks.

15 (Pause in proceedings.)

16 SALESMAN 2: Hello?

17 MAN: Hi. My name is

18 Man.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, sir.

20 MR. MAN: And I spoke with someone

21 there a couple of days ago.

22 Anyway, I’m working on a movie, and I’m

23 looking for a van to rent for one month, and —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: What you want it to look

25 like?



1 MR. MAN: Well, what I need is I

2 need one of those passenger vans.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Uh-huh.

4 MR. MAN: With most of the seats

5 taken out.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Uh-huh.

7 MR. MAN: So we can put camera

8 equipment in the back.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I see. You want it

10 to shoot out of. Uh-huh.

11 MR. MAN: Yeah. We don’t — yeah.

12 I mean —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not for the movie?

14 MR. MAN: What’s that?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not for the movies.

16 You just need the windows.

17 MR. MAN: Yeah. We need it for

18 equipment.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Um-hmm. Okay. It’s

20 going to be for a trip or local driving?

21 MR. MAN: Well, it will be one trip

22 up to Bakersfield, and then that’s where we’re

23 filming for one month. I need it for one month.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, okay. You’re going

25 to be in Bakersfield.



1 MR. MAN: Right.


3 MR. MAN: Now, do you have anything

4 like that?


6 MR. MAN: Okay. How much? What’s

7 the rate?

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, see, we just have

9 daily rates on those.

10 MR. MAN: Well, I was hoping we can

11 cut a deal for a month. I’m sure we could.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I’ll tell you —

13 so what did you guys have budgeted for that?

14 MR. MAN: Not very much. We’re a

15 student film.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I see. Yeah.

17 MR. MAN: But —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: See, my situation is

19 that those vans go out almost every day.

20 MR. MAN: You can get a better rate,

21 right, if you — but, I mean, we can pay — we’re

22 paying cash, if that makes any difference to you.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t.

24 Let me tell you where I think you might

25 be able to get a good weekly rate.



1 MR. MAN: Okay.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you this:

3 How much did you have in mind that you wanted to

4 pay?

5 MR. MAN: Around $600.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: For this whole time,

7 yeah.

8 MR. MAN: Yeah.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Call this number.

10 000-0000.

11 MR. MAN: And who is that?

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Sam’s U-Drive.

13 MR. MAN: Sam’s U-Drive?

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Also, I’ll tell you what

15 you could do. We have a Rent a Wreck in

16 Bakersfield.

17 MR. MAN: Yeah, I know. I’ve talked

18 to them, and all that they have, though, is a

19 station wagon.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I see. They don’t

21 have the others?

22 MR. MAN: No. They’re cool guys up

23 there, John and Tom.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: John, right.

25 MR. MAN: Yeah . I’ve been dealing



1 with them quite a bit, actually. We haven’t rented

2 from them yet, but —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: See, I’ll tell you my

4 situation. See, I’d have to look, because most

5 likely — see, I only have two of them like that —


7 MR. MAN: Okay.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: — and my problem is we

9 book them in advance, you know, the passenger vans?

10 MR. MAN: Yeah.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: So the chances are I

12 won’t have it available for a whole month.

13 MR. MAN: Now, do you have anything

14 else that you could shoot out of?

15 Yeah. We don’t even need to shoot out

16 of. We just need to put the camera in it and drive

17 it to the set. That’s all we need.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I see. So you don’t

19 need the windows?

20 MR. MAN: No, we don’t need windows.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. You don’t need a

22 passenger van?

23 MR. MAN: No, not necessarily.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Don’t they have vans

25 there?



1 MR. MAN: Where?

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: At — oh, up in

3 Bakersfield?

4 MR. MAN: No, they don’t.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would try Sam’s

6 U-Drive. They might work some deal out with you.

7 MR. MAN: Okay.


9 MR. MAN: Okay. I appreciate it.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. I do too.

11 MR. MAN: Thanks. Bye-bye.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Think about it.

13 —o0o—

14 ///

15 ///

16 ///













2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes. I had called you

7 earlier about renting a 15-passenger van to go to

8 Knott’s Berry Farm, and you quoted me a rate of

9 59.95 for a 12-passenger with 100 miles free.

10 SALESMAN: Okay.

11 CUSTOMER: Do you — what kind of van

12 is that? What year is it?

13 SALESMAN: It’s a late ’80s. I don’t

14 know the exact year.

15 CUSTOMER: Late ’80s. But it is —

16 it’s a more recent van, then?

17 SALESMAN: Yeah. When do you need it,

18 though?

19 CUSTOMER: Sunday, the 21st.

20 SALESMAN: Let’s see — did you reserve

21 it already or you didn’t —

22 CUSTOMER: No, I didn’t. I just was

23 getting information on it.

24 SALESMAN: Okay.

25 CUSTOMER: I wanted to double-check on



1 that with you.

2 SALESMAN: Okay. Yeah. The exact

3 year, I don’t know. It’s somewhere between ’87 to

4 ’89.

5 CUSTOMER: Okay. So is it like a Ford

6 or something like that?

7 SALESMAN: It’s a Dodge.

8 CUSTOMER: A Dodge?

9 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

10 CUSTOMER: Okay. And it’s 59.95 with a

11 hundred free miles, and that’s a 12-passenger,

12 right?

13 SALESMAN: 12-passenger.

14 CUSTOMER: Do you have a 15-passenger?

15 SALESMAN: No. We don’t carry anything

16 that large.

17 CUSTOMER: Okay. I’m still trying to

18 (inaudible) what to do here between a 15- and a

19 20-passenger.

20 SALESMAN: How many people are you

21 going to move?

22 CUSTOMER: We’ve got 15 people, and

23 I’ve got a couple other people that will drive, so

24 I’m debating whether to go with a 12- or 15-

25 passenger.



1 SALESMAN: Oh, I see. Yeah. It’s —

2 some people try to make mistake of cramming too

3 many people in the van, so —

4 CUSTOMER: I know. I don’t want to —

5 SALESMAN: It’s just not a very safe

6 thing to do.

7 CUSTOMER: No. I realize that. But it

8 has seat belts and all that kind of thing?

9 SALESMAN: Yeah, it does. I think that

10 Avis at the airport carries 15-passenger vans,

11 though.

12 CUSTOMER: Oh, do they?

13 SALESMAN: I’m pretty sure.

14 CUSTOMER: Okay. Let me give them a

15 shot. Thank you.

16 SALESMAN: And another place is

17 Marathon Rent A Car over in Culver City, over on

18 Washington Boulevard. They have 15-passenger vans

19 too.

20 CUSTOMER: Okay. I’ll give them a try,

21 then.

22 SALESMAN: Okay?

23 CUSTOMER: Thank you very much.

24 SALESMAN: All right. You’re welcome.

25 Bye-bye.



1 CUSTOMER: Thank you very much.

2 SALESMAN: All right. You’re welcome.

3 Bye-bye.

4 —o0o—

5 ///

6 ///

7 ///






















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Hi. I’m looking to rent a

7 compact car. Do you have one available today?

8 SALESMAN: Well, sure, I can get you

9 one. How long do you need one for?

10 CUSTOMER: Just for today.

11 SALESMAN: Today, and you’re age 25 and

12 older?

13 CUSTOMER: Yeah.

14 SALESMAN: With a major credit card?

15 CUSTOMER: Yeah.

16 SALESMAN: Do you plan on driving

17 locally around here with the vehicle?

18 CUSTOMER: Just (inaudible), yeah.

19 SALESMAN: Okay. We’ll get you a car.

20 We have as low as 22.95 a day.

21 CUSTOMER: Okay. Fine. I’ll be there in

22 about a half an hour, then.

23 SALESMAN: Sure. What’s your name?

24 CUSTOMER: Customer

25 SALESMAN: Customer?



1 CUSTOMER: Customer.

2 SALESMAN: Customer.

3 CUSTOMER: Customer (inaudible).



6 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

7 CUSTOMER: Thank you, then.

8 —o0o—

9 ///

10 ///

11 ///


















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Dave Schwartz.

7 SALESMAN: David is outside, sir.

8 Would you like to leave a message for him?

9 CUSTOMER: No. He just called me.

10 I’m just returning his call.

11 SALESMAN: Okay. What’s your name?

12 CUSTOMER: Customer.

13 SALESMAN: Okay, Customer. I’ll tell him

14 that you called.

15 CUSTOMER: Thanks.

16 SALESMAN: Okay.

17 —o0o—

18 ///

19 ///

20 ///









2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please? Hello?

6 CUSTOMER: Hello?

7 SALESMAN: Yes, sir.

8 CUSTOMER: Yes. Good morning.

9 SALESMAN: Good morning.

10 CUSTOMER: May car was stolen

11 yesterday, and the insurance company will pay up to

12 $10 a day, and I wanted to find out what kind of a

13 car that I can rent from you which will be close to

14 that.

15 SALESMAN: Starting today?

16 CUSTOMER: No. It would be starting

17 tomorrow, Monday.

18 SALESMAN: Tomorrow, Monday. Okay.

19 Hold on a second, please.

20 (Music playing.)

21 SALESMAN: Okay. Hello?

22 CUSTOMER: Hello.

23 SALESMAN: Okay. What we can do is

24 (inaudible) the information from your insurance

25 company. We can direct bill them. We just need to



1 see proof of insurance.


3 SALESMAN: And you’re age 25 and older?

4 CUSTOMER: Excuse me?

5 SALESMAN: You’re age 25 and older?


7 SALESMAN: With a major credit card?

8 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible.)

9 SALESMAN: So we can work that out. We

10 can get you a car for $10 a day. It would be

11 something like a early ’80 vehicle that doesn’t

12 look the greatest but it runs spectacular.

13 CUSTOMER: Well, what kind of a car is

14 that? I mean —

15 SALESMAN: Well, we have — just

16 depends what we have available tomorrow, but like I

17 say it would be an older vehicle, and it doesn’t

18 look the greatest, but it’s, you know, runs great.

19 CUSTOMER: Yeah. Is it unlimited

20 mileage?

21 SALESMAN: No. We’ll just give 50

22 miles a day free with that.

23 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible.)

24 SALESMAN: Do a lot of driving?

25 CUSTOMER: It’s all over, yeah.





3 SALESMAN: Well, are you like a

4 salesperson, sales rep?

5 CUSTOMER: No, but I’m doing driving.

6 So you don’t have anything with

7 unlimited mileage?

8 SALESMAN: No, we don’t, sir.

9 CUSTOMER: Okay. So I’ll just have to

10 come tomorrow down and take a look at those cars.

11 SALESMAN: Sure. We could do that.

12 Yes.

13 CUSTOMER: You’re going to have

14 something tomorrow?

15 SALESMAN: We should — we could get

16 you something. Just make sure, you know, like I

17 say, bring proof of your liability insurance and

18 everything with your —

19 CUSTOMER: Yeah, yeah, no problem.

20 SALESMAN: Okay.

21 CUSTOMER: Now, where are you located

22 at?

23 SALESMAN: My address is 0000 Bundy.

24 CUSTOMER: 0000 Bundy.

25 SALESMAN: Bundy.



1 CUSTOMER: Which is on the corner of

2 what?

3 SALESMAN: Bundy and Sunset. And we

4 open up at 10:00 o’clock tomorrow. Be here between

5 10:00 and 1:00 o’clock.

6 CUSTOMER: Oh, okay.

7 SALESMAN: Okay, sir.

8 CUSTOMER: Thank you. Bye-bye.

9 —o0o—

10 ///

11 ///

12 ///

















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes. I just called you a

7 little earlier about the renting a car tomorrow.


9 CUSTOMER: I want to find out how much

10 is the mileage.

11 SALESMAN: I beg your pardon?

12 CUSTOMER: How much is the mileage?

13 SALESMAN: How long are you keeping the

14 car for?

15 CUSTOMER: Well, it might be a month

16 or —

17 SALESMAN: By the month we give you

18 enough to cover you. You get 1500 miles every

19 single month.

20 CUSTOMER: Oh, okay, because, yeah, it

21 depend how long they gonna find my car.

22 SALESMAN: Of course.

23 CUSTOMER: If they find my car

24 (inaudible) but the insurance will pay, like I say,

25 $10 a day, up to a month. So (inaudible).



1 SALESMAN: Well, on the cars for the

2 $10 a day, those are the insurance cars that we

3 have. They don’t look all that great at all.

4 They’re a little bit ugly-looking cars. On the

5 insurance cars you get 50 miles free every single

6 day with the car. So let’s say 50 times 30 days,

7 it would be — yeah, it’s 1500. Yeah, that’s

8 correct.

9 CUSTOMER: And but if I go over that,

10 how much would it be? I mean —

11 SALESMAN: If you happen to go over

12 that, it’s 20 cents a mile. But that would have to

13 be a lot of driving.

14 CUSTOMER: Oh, okay.

15 SALESMAN: I mean, a lot of driving.

16 CUSTOMER: Yeah, because I have to go

17 to Mojave.

18 SALESMAN: To the Mojave Desert?

19 CUSTOMER: Yes, next weekend.

20 SALESMAN: Because these cars

21 are — remember when you called earlier I asked if

22 you were local use or a trip?

23 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

24 SALESMAN: These cars are for local use

25 only. They wouldn’t be allowed to go to the Mojave



1 Desert.

2 CUSTOMER: Okay. Well, I can still

3 rent it and —


5 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible) rent maybe for

6 that weekend.


8 CUSTOMER: Okay. So I’ll see you

9 tomorrow, then.

10 SALESMAN: Okay. Great.

11 CUSTOMER: Thank you.

12 SALESMAN: Thanks.

13 —o0o—

14 ///

15 ///

16 ///













2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes. Hi. Could you tell me

7 if the Customers have picked up the van yet?

8 SALESMAN: Oh, let me see —

9 CUSTOMER: It was a white van, and they

10 were supposed to pick it up between 10:00 and

11 11:00?

12 SALESMAN: Someone named Customer just

13 picked it up about a quarter to 11:00.

14 CUSTOMER: Quarter to 11:00. Okay.

15 Thank you.

16 SALESMAN: Okay. Bye-bye.

17 CUSTOMER: Bye-bye.

18 —o0o—

19 ///

20 ///

21 ///








2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Hi. Can you tell me how old

7 you have to be to rent a car?

8 SALESMAN: How old is the driver?

9 CUSTOMER: The driver is 20.

10 SALESMAN: 20. With a major credit

11 card?

12 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

13 SALESMAN: When do you need the

14 vehicle?

15 CUSTOMER: Excuse me?

16 SALESMAN: When do you need the car?

17 CUSTOMER: Today.

18 SALESMAN: Today? Okay. Well, we can

19 rent a car to you.

20 CUSTOMER: Okay. Great.

21 SALESMAN: How long do you need the car

22 for?

23 CUSTOMER: Just today.

24 SALESMAN: Just today.

25 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible) we turn it in.



1 We’re leaving tomorrow.

2 SALESMAN: Okay. Okay. (Inaudible)

3 town driving locally here around Los Angeles?

4 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

5 SALESMAN: Okay. Well, yeah. We also

6 provide a free pickup service if you’re in the

7 area.


9 SALESMAN: Where are you located right

10 now?

11 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible) we’re near

12 Venice.

13 SALESMAN: Near Venice? We can come

14 over and pick you up. Only thing, we have to

15 charge an underage charge because you’re under the

16 age of 25. It’s a $10 a day underage charge.

17 CUSTOMER: Okay.

18 SALESMAN: Renting a car would be

19 $49.95 a day. Like I say, we can come over and

20 pick you up.

21 CUSTOMER: Okay. And what time does it

22 have to be back in tomorrow?

23 SALESMAN: Oh, it’s a 24-hour rental.

24 What time do you want to turn it in?

25 CUSTOMER: 24-hour rental?



1 SALESMAN: Yes. Depends on what time

2 you pick it up as the time as to the time usually

3 it’s due in the next day.

4 CUSTOMER: Okay. Hold on for a second.

5 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

6 (No voices on tape for several

7 seconds.)

8 CUSTOMER: Okay. I had to find out

9 what time we have to be at the airport tomorrow.

10 Can we be picked up in an hour and a

11 half?

12 SALESMAN: Sure. Just call us when

13 you’re ready.

14 CUSTOMER: Okay.

15 SALESMAN: Can I have your name,

16 please?

17 CUSTOMER: Yeah. I’ll give you the

18 person who is going to be driving it. Ms.

19 Customer

20 SALESMAN: Customer?

21 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh. It’s C-u-s-t-o-m-e-r.

22 SALESMAN: Customer?

23 CUSTOMER: Customer, C-u-s-t-o-m-e-r.

24 SALESMAN: You have the phone number?

25 CUSTOMER: I’m sorry. We’re staying at



1 a friend’s house. Let me see if I can find a phone

2 number here. Hold on.

3 (No voices on tape for several

4 seconds.)


6 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

7 CUSTOMER: I’m sorry. She didn’t leave

8 us — they just left the house and they didn’t —

9 SALESMAN: That’s okay. That’s okay.

10 Just give us a call before you want to get picked

11 up.

12 CUSTOMER: Okay. Great.

13 SALESMAN: Okay? We’ll come over and

14 get you.

15 CUSTOMER: Okay.

16 SALESMAN: All right.

17 CUSTOMER: Bye-bye.


19 —o0o—

20 ///

21 ///

22 ///







2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: How you doing? You got any

7 cars rent (inaudible)?

8 SALESMAN: Yes, sir. For how long?

9 CUSTOMER: Oh, just for the day.

10 SALESMAN: Local use here in L.A. or

11 are you taking a trip someplace?

12 CUSTOMER: I’ll be taking it out of the

13 county.

14 SALESMAN B: Oh. Where are you headed

15 to?

16 CUSTOMER: Out to Joshua Tree.

17 SALESMAN: And then back again.

18 Are you at least 25?


20 SALESMAN: And you have a credit card

21 in your name?

22 CUSTOMER: Someone else will be doing

23 the renting for this.

24 SALESMAN: Okay. Are they at least 25.




1 SALESMAN: You sound like you might

2 need something with free unlimited miles. All of

3 my cars get 100 miles free per day, and after that

4 it’s 20 cents a mile.

5 CUSTOMER: Ah, I see.

6 SALESMAN: Which I don’t have.

7 CUSTOMER: All right. Well, I need

8 something with completely unlimited mileage.

9 SALESMAN: Yeah. That we don’t offer.

10 CUSTOMER: All right. Thank you very

11 much.

12 SALESMAN: You’re welcome.

13 —o0o—

14 ///

15 ///

16 ///













2 between Woman and Friend:


4 (Phone ringing.)

5 (Inaudible voices.)

6 WOMAN: $3 worth of gas (inaudible).

7 FRIEND: Hello?

8 WOMAN: Hi. How you doing?

9 FRIEND: Oh, fine. I’m on the other

10 line. How is it going?

11 WOMAN: I’m fine. I’m at the Rent a

12 Wreck.

13 FRIEND: Yes.

14 WOMAN: And I just put $3 worth of gas

15 in the truck. It’s not half full.

16 FRIEND: Yes.

17 WOMAN: When you get off the phone,

18 can you come over?

19 FRIEND: I’ll come over in — as soon

20 as I finish my phone call.

21 WOMAN: Okay. I’ll wait for you.

22 FRIEND: At Rent a Wreck.

23 WOMAN: Yeah.

24 FRIEND: Yeah. Wait for me.

25 WOMAN: Okay.



1 FRIEND: Bye.

2 WOMAN: Bye.

3 —o0o—

4 ///

5 ///

6 ///























2 between Woman and Mother and Customer:


4 OPERATOR: AT&T. This is Lenora with

5 AT&T. How may I help you?

6 WOMAN: Collect call from Woman.

7 OPERATOR: Thank you for using AT&T.

8 WOMAN: You’re welcome.

9 (Phone ringing.)

10 OPERATOR: This is the AT&T operator

11 with a collect call.

12 Who is calling, please?

13 WOMAN: Woman.

14 MOTHER: Woman (inaudible).

15 OPERATOR: All right.

16 MOTHER: Thank you.

17 WOMAN: Hi, Mother.

18 MOTHER: How you doing, Darling?

19 WOMAN: I’m doing fine. Doing fine.

20 MOTHER: Did you get everything taken

21 care of?

22 WOMAN: Yep.

23 MOTHER: That’s great.

24 WOMAN: I’m at the Rent a Wreck right

25 now returning the truck.



1 MOTHER: Oh. That’s fantastic.

2 WOMAN: Yeah. Mitch and —

3 MOTHER: (Inaudible.)

4 WOMAN: Huh?

5 MOTHER: Who got the truck?

6 WOMAN: Frank.

7 MOTHER: Oh. That’s excellent.

8 WOMAN: And Mitch and Bob helped me

9 move all the stuff.

10 MOTHER: Yeah. It’s all moved now?

11 WOMAN: Yeah. Everything.

12 MOTHER: You like your new place?

13 WOMAN: Yep. Love it.

14 MOTHER: That’s great.

15 WOMAN: It’s beautiful. It has

16 beautiful cabinets in the kitchen.

17 MOTHER: What I wanted to say was this.

18 WOMAN: What?

19 MOTHER: I want you to get another

20 phone.

21 WOMAN: I am.

22 MOTHER: Listen to me now.

23 WOMAN: Okay.

24 MOTHER: And I want no long-distance

25 calls.



1 WOMAN: Okay.

2 MOTHER: When you order it, tell them

3 you don’t want any long distance calls.

4 WOMAN: Okay.

5 MOTHER: You don’t want to be able to

6 even put any on there.

7 WOMAN: Okay.

8 MOTHER: Okay?

9 WOMAN: Yeah, that’s the best way to

10 do.

11 MOTHER: That’s the way — ’cause

12 that’s the way Amanda does it.

13 WOMAN: Okay. How’s she doing?

14 MOTHER: I haven’t talked to her today.

Check out  Rothman v. Jackson (1996)

15 WOMAN: Okay.

16 MOTHER: But I’m sure she’s doing fine.

17 WOMAN: I haven’t called there in — I

18 haven’t even called Boston at all.

19 MOTHER: Oh, you don’t need to.

20 WOMAN: Unh-unh.

21 MOTHER: It’s not necessary.

22 WOMAN: No, it’s not.

23 MOTHER: You don’t need to make a lot

24 of long-distance calls with (inaudible). That’s

25 what I want you to do. Get your phone where you



1 can’t make long-distance calls. Somebody wants to

2 call you, let them call you. That way you’ll be

3 able to take care of your bills because that will

4 get you all behind, all the different (inaudible)

5 stuff, you know?

6 WOMAN: Yeah.

7 MOTHER: So Frank’s still there with

8 you?

9 WOMAN: He’s going to be coming over

10 in a few minutes to pick me up.

11 MOTHER: Oh. You’re — he’s over —

12 WOMAN: I’m at the truck place. I

13 just called him because I called him earlier but he

14 had stepped out, so I let him know that I was here.

15 The truck is not due back until 12:00, but I

16 brought it back 11:15.

17 MOTHER: Yeah. That’s fantastic,

18 Norma. I’m glad —

19 WOMAN: Yeah. The place is nice.

20 It’s really nice.

21 MOTHER: (Inaudible) today yet, have

22 you?

23 WOMAN: Uh-huh.

24 MOTHER: Oh, have you?

25 WOMAN: Yep.



1 MOTHER: Okay, because I was out

2 exercising. I went to work out.

3 WOMAN: You did?

4 MOTHER: Yeah.

5 WOMAN: Yep. So, anyway, (inaudible)

6 playing this game you drive.

7 MOTHER: Who?

8 WOMAN: Me.

9 MOTHER: Okay. Did you have enough

10 money?

11 WOMAN: Yeah, yeah.

12 MOTHER: Good.

13 WOMAN: Actually, what I did is I gave

14 Mitch and Bob $15 apiece for helping me move.

15 MOTHER: Why?

16 WOMAN: Because. That was a lot of

17 stuff. Mike, he cut his arm on the refrigerator.

18 MOTHER: I know what you’re saying. I

19 know it’s work, but at the same time do you have

20 something left?

21 WOMAN: Yeah. We had everything we

22 needed.

23 MOTHER: Okay.

24 WOMAN: We had everything we needed.

25 MOTHER: Because I know what —



1 WOMAN: What?

2 MOTHER: I know what’s going to happen

3 now is when you get your other money you got to

4 send it to me because I go to court on Wednesday.

5 WOMAN: Right.

6 MOTHER: So as soon as you get it

7 Monday, put it in the mail.

8 WOMAN: I’ll put it right — I’ll put

9 it on the Western Union.

10 MOTHER: Hum?

11 WOMAN: You want to — well, I better

12 put it in the mail, huh?

13 MOTHER: Yeah, because it costs — I

14 mean, I know you —

15 WOMAN: They have a thing called

16 Moneygram. They have a thing called Moneygram

17 that’s less than Western Union, and it only takes

18 like five minutes. Somebody told me about it

19 yesterday.

20 MOTHER: Uh-huh.

21 WOMAN: It’s only like $6 every $50.

22 MOTHER: Well, still, that’s just as

23 high. That’s just as high. That’s what it

24 cost — because once you sent $200, I only paid $29

25 to send that.



1 WOMAN: Oh, really?

2 MOTHER: Yeah. So that’s the same

3 thing.

4 WOMAN: Okay. Well, I’ll make sure I

5 get that rate.

6 MOTHER: Okay. (Inaudible) I go to

7 court Wednesday.

8 WOMAN: Okay. Okey-dokey.

9 MOTHER: So are your buddies doing,

10 Mike and your other friend?

11 WOMAN: Fine.

12 MOTHER: (Inaudible).

13 WOMAN: Yep. I have to —

14 MOTHER: You ever talk to Eunice.

15 WOMAN: Unh-unh, I didn’t talk to

16 Eunice..

17 MOTHER: Is Mitch there with you?

18 WOMAN: Not here right now.

19 MOTHER: Oh, okay.

20 WOMAN: Unh-unh. He’s going to go out

21 of town tonight.

22 MOTHER: Oh, is he?

23 WOMAN: Yeah.

24 MOTHER: Well, it was nice of him to

25 help you. That’s the reason it’s good that you



1 have good friends.

2 WOMAN: Yep. I know who my real

3 friends are.

4 MOTHER: Uh-huh. And how is John

5 doing?

6 WOMAN: He’s doing great. His show

7 was really fabulous the other night.

8 MOTHER: Oh, he had a job?

9 WOMAN: Yeah. Yep, and a week before

10 that, too. It was jammin’. I didn’t go to the

11 first one, but I went to this last one, and he got

12 off.

13 MOTHER: I know he did.

14 WOMAN: Yep. And then his manager and

15 the people that’s supposed to pay him ducked out

16 the back door.

17 MOTHER: What?

18 WOMAN: That’s the second time, the

19 second show on the road they didn’t pay him.

20 MOTHER: Oh, my God!

21 WOMAN: And the kind of show that he

22 put on, he’s worth a lot of money.

23 MOTHER: He’s (inaudible).

24 WOMAN: Yeah. And the band. They had

25 a live band, and they was tight. They were real



1 tight. Yep.

2 Well, anyway, I’m on this business

3 phone up here at the Rent a Wreck, but I can call

4 you back if you want.

5 Hold on. Hold on just a second. Hold

6 on just a second, okay?

7 MOTHER: Okay. Customer get to talk to

8 me?

9 WOMAN: Hold on. Yeah. Hold on just

10 a second.

11 Is it okay if I talk to my mom for just

12 a few more minutes? It’s on her phone (inaudible).

13 Hello, Mother. They said I could talk

14 for a few more minutes.

15 MOTHER: Okay.

16 WOMAN: Yep. So, anyway — I’m making

17 sweet and sour chicken for dinner.

18 MOTHER: What did you say?

19 WOMAN: I’m making sweet and sour

20 chicken for dinner.

21 MOTHER: Oh, I’m standing here eating

22 pickles.

23 WOMAN: Are you?

24 MOTHER: I had sweet and sour pickles.

25 WOMAN: Do you want me to tell you how



1 to make some real good sweet-and-sour chicken, real

2 quick?

3 MOTHER: Oh, I don’t cook much chicken,

4 because I don’t like touching raw chicken.

5 WOMAN: Huh?

6 MOTHER: I don’t touch raw chicken.

7 WOMAN: Huh?

8 MOTHER: I don’t touch raw chickens.

9 WOMAN: Garage? Oh, okay.

10 MOTHER: I don’t cook chicken.

11 WOMAN: Well, what you could do is go

12 to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

13 MOTHER: Uh-huh.

14 WOMAN: And get you — whatever kind

15 of piece you want. Go to the grocery store. Look

16 over by the spaghetti sauce, and they have sweet

17 and sour sauce in a bottle, and get you some orange

18 honey —

19 MOTHER: Uh-huh.

20 WOMAN: — and put it in the sweet and

21 sour sauce.

22 MOTHER: Yeah.

23 WOMAN: And take some pineapple, some

24 chunk pineapples in their own juice.

25 MOTHER: Yeah.



1 WOMAN: And put them in the sweet and

2 sour sauce, and cut up some green pepper and some

3 onion. Put it in the sweet and source sauce and

4 get it hot.

5 MOTHER: Yes.

6 WOMAN: And then dip the chicken down

7 in it.

8 MOTHER: You can tell me about that

9 later on when you get home, when you get your

10 phone.

11 WOMAN: Okay.

12 MOTHER: But what I wanted to ask you

13 about now is this guy that ran off with

14 what’s-his-name’s money, I’m glad you’re not

15 working for him.

16 WOMAN: Yeah. Me — that’s a crime he

17 did that, but he won’t do that again.

18 MOTHER: Yeah. That’s ridiculous.

19 WOMAN: It really is.

20 MOTHER: And then you got Wally

21 working with you.

22 WOMAN: Yep.

23 MOTHER: And at least he’s honest. Do

24 you know what I mean?

25 WOMAN: Um-hmm.



1 MOTHER: Yeah. So it won’t be long

2 your music will be going, and I hope it will be

3 going pretty soon because last week we had a guy

4 with 25 years get fired, for almost no reason at

5 all. He didn’t even do anything.

6 WOMAN: Really?

7 MOTHER: Yeah. But you got to really

8 get yourself and your music —

9 WOMAN: Everything is rolling right

10 along.

11 MOTHER: That’s right, and, you know,

12 the music — you put it into the movies and stuff

13 and everything.

14 Oh, and what is — no, don’t tell me

15 the — well, I guess you could tell me.

16 WOMAN: Um —

17 MOTHER: No. Don’t tell me his name

18 right now.

19 WOMAN: Okay. All right.

20 MOTHER: That’s better.

21 WOMAN: All right.

22 MOTHER: You don’t even (inaudible) —

23 WOMAN: Okay. Well, I guess I’ll get

24 on off this phone. I love you so much.

25 MOTHER: Oh, I love you too, Darling.



1 I’ll be here the rest of the day.

2 WOMAN: Okay.

3 MOTHER: All day tomorrow, because it’s

4 going to be real cold here with the high winds up

5 to about 30, 40 miles an hour.

6 WOMAN: Oh, okay.

7 MOTHER: And about 5 degrees.

8 WOMAN: All right. They’re gonna —

9 MOTHER: (Inaudible) the ones

10 (inaudible) —

11 WOMAN: Okay. They’re gonna put my

12 mail at the post office, so I’ll pick it up. As

13 soon as I can get it, I’ll put it in the mail.

14 MOTHER: (Inaudible) resolve your —

15 WOMAN: Excuse me. Unh-unh. On

16 Monday it’ll come.

17 MOTHER: Okay.

18 WOMAN: Customer, can you come here,

19 Precious? Mother wants to talk to you.

20 MOTHER: Well, call me and call me

21 later on, too, if you —

22 CUSTOMER: Hello?

23 MOTHER: Hello, Darling. How’s

24 Mother’s baby?

25 CUSTOMER: (Inaudible.)



1 MOTHER: How’s mother’s baby doing?

2 CUSTOMER: What you at?

3 MOTHER: How you doing, Darling? How

4 are you?


6 MOTHER: I love you.

7 CUSTOMER: I do too.

8 MOTHER: You know who I talked to? I

9 talked to Rachael (phonetic) the other day, your

10 baby sitter.

11 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

12 MOTHER: Remember Rachael?

13 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

14 MOTHER: And Paula?

15 CUSTOMER: Uh-huh.

16 MOTHER: They came over to work the

17 other day and they asked me about you.


19 MOTHER: And they want to know if you

20 can come home for the summer.

21 WOMAN: Hello. Mother?

22 MOTHER: Um-hmm.

23 WOMAN: Okay.

24 MOTHER: Yeah. Rachael her baby

25 sitter, came over to the plant the other day with



1 her mom.

2 WOMAN: Um-hmm.

3 MOTHER: And she wanted to know if

4 Darla could come home for the summer.

5 WOMAN: Oh, really?

6 MOTHER: Yeah. She wanted to take care

7 of her for the summer.

8 WOMAN: Oh, really?

9 MOTHER: For you, but things will work

10 out, you know.

11 WOMAN: Yeah. That’s up to you,

12 Mother.

13 MOTHER: Huh?

14 WOMAN: That’s up to you, if you do.

15 MOTHER: Yeah, I know. You know, you

16 can do — have your business, I think, better with

17 her out there, right now, but, like I say, like I

18 told Rachael, I want to come out there in May if I

19 can, but —

20 WOMAN: Yeah. I wish you would.

21 MOTHER: You know, and then that way —

22 WOMAN: We have —

23 MOTHER: — bring Darla back with me

24 (inaudible) I can.

25 WOMAN: Okay.



1 MOTHER: But I gotta have money yet to

2 get out there yet. I don’t have money — I haven’t

3 (inaudible) money to pay my taxes yet.

4 WOMAN: Mom, you know, I can get you a

5 plane ticket?

6 MOTHER: Huh?

7 WOMAN: I can get you a plane ticket.

8 MOTHER: A what?

9 WOMAN: I can get you a ticket.

10 MOTHER: Oh, yeah. Well, that will be

11 great.

12 WOMAN: Okay.

13 MOTHER: That would be fine.

14 WOMAN: Let me work on that.

15 MOTHER: Okay, Dear. You do that.

16 WOMAN: Okay.

17 MOTHER: And that’s the week of November the

18 9th.

19 WOMAN: That would be for your

20 birthday.

21 MOTHER: Yeah. Novcember the 9th through

22 the — that’s my birthday.

23 WOMAN: Yeah. (Inaudible).

24 MOTHER: That will be fine.

25 WOMAN: And then you don’t have to



1 drive, either.

2 MOTHER: Yeah.

3 WOMAN: Okay. I’ll work on that.

4 MOTHER: Okay. But Eva (inaudible)

5 needs a ticket and I need one for her, too.

6 WOMAN: Yeah, I know. Well, I’ll have

7 to just work on that —

8 MOTHER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) will

9 need one with her (inaudible) she’s —

10 WOMAN: Yes, you would, because when I

11 had brought her back before, I had to pay four

12 fifty, but that was just because it was —

13 MOTHER: But even so, if I get out

14 there even —

15 WOMAN: — last minute.

16 MOTHER: — (simultaneous, inaudible)

17 will be good, but I still would like to get out

18 there because I could still get to come back again,

19 and that’s another thing too.

20 WOMAN: What?

21 MOTHER: I’ll get to come back again in

22 July if I have money.

23 WOMAN: Yeah. I hope so.

24 MOTHER: I’ll get my pay, and I’ll come

25 back in July.



1 WOMAN: Yeah. Hopefully

2 (simultaneous, inaudible) —

3 MOTHER: (Simultaneous, inaudible)

4 then, I could bring her back with me and

5 (simultaneous, inaudible) —

6 WOMAN: I wish you could bring

7 (inaudible).

8 MOTHER: That would be excellent,

9 wouldn’t it?

10 WOMAN: Huh?

11 MOTHER: That would be excellent,

12 wouldn’t it?

13 WOMAN: Yep. Okay. Well —

14 MOTHER: Just be two months, keep her

15 here, and then bring her back.

16 WOMAN: Yeah. That would be perfect.

17 MOTHER: Yeah, but I gotta have money

18 to do things like that.

19 WOMAN: Okay. Well, let’s work on

20 that.

21 MOTHER: Okay, then.

22 WOMAN: I told you they called me back

23 for Sony Pictures.

24 MOTHER: Yeah. That’s excellent,

25 honey. That is fantastic, because, I’m telling



1 you, things are getting rough up here.

2 WOMAN: Okay. Well —

3 MOTHER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) this

4 job 25 years. I said to myself, “I lose my job,

5 and Sam hasn’t even made it yet, we won’t have

6 nothing.”

7 WOMAN: Yep.

8 MOTHER: You know what I mean? I can’t

9 lean on you right now, and you won’t be able to

10 lean on me then.

11 WOMAN: Okay. Hey, Mother —

12 MOTHER: (Simultaneous, inaudible) now.

13 WOMAN: All right. Well, we’ll do

14 that, then.

15 MOTHER: All right —

16 WOMAN: I love you so much.

17 MOTHER: Don’t forget to put it in the

18 mail. I love you too.

19 WOMAN: Okay. I’ll talk to you later.

20 MOTHER: I’ll talk to you later,

21 Darling.

22 WOMAN: All right. Bye.

23 MOTHER: Bye. Kiss Darla for me.

24 —o0o—

25 ///




2 between Salesman and Customers 1 and 2:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER 1: You speak Spanish?


8 CUSTOMER 1: I no speak English. And

9 you —

10 CUSTOMER 2: Hello?

11 SALESMAN: Hello.

12 CUSTOMER 2: Do you speak Spanish?


14 CUSTOMER 2: Well, I have a rent a car

15 the Friday before.

16 SALESMAN: Okay.

17 CUSTOMER 2: The number is 00000.

18 I’m — I want to stay with the car for

19 another days.

20 SALESMAN: Oh, okay. One minute,

21 please, okay? Okay. One second. Thank you.

22 (Music playing.)

23 RADIO ANNOUNCER: Good afternoon, and

24 thank you for listening. I’m Don Barley —

25 SALESMAN: Is this for — hello?



1 CUSTOMER 2: Hello.

2 SALESMAN: Yes. Is this for Mr.

3 Customer?

4 CUSTOMER 2: Joaquin Estes.

5 SALESMAN: Yeah. Okay. So for one

6 more day?

7 CUSTOMER 2: I don’t know how many

8 days. How do you charge for a day?

9 SALESMAN: Well, how much longer does

10 he need it?

11 CUSTOMER 2: Well, you charge 169 for a

12 week.

13 SALESMAN: Yes, um-hmm.

14 CUSTOMER 2: It’s the same?


16 CUSTOMER 2: And if I don’t rent for a

17 completely week, it’s the same?

18 SALESMAN: Oh, I understand. It’s

19 49.95 for the day.

20 CUSTOMER 2: 49.95 for a day?


22 CUSTOMER 2: But it’s too expensive.

23 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

24 CUSTOMER 2: Well —

25 SALESMAN: How much longer does he need



1 it?

2 CUSTOMER 2: Sorry?

3 SALESMAN: How many more days does he

4 need it?

5 CUSTOMER 2: I don’t know but have two,

6 three, four. I don’t know. I call you again.

7 SALESMAN: Okay. Because if — I’ll

8 tell you what. If he has it —

9 (No voices in tape for several

10 seconds.)

11 SALESMAN: If he keeps the car for four

12 days —

13 CUSTOMER 2: For four days?

14 SALESMAN: Okay? Then it would be 169.

15 CUSTOMER 2: 169.

16 SALESMAN: For four more days or a

17 week.

18 CUSTOMER 2: Four days for —

19 SALESMAN: Say four days or a week is

20 the same.

21 CUSTOMER 2: For four days and one week

22 it’s the same?

23 SALESMAN: It’s the same, yes.

24 CUSTOMER 2: Well, I talk to my

25 husband, and I call you again.




2 CUSTOMER 2: Thank you.

3 SALESMAN: Thank you. Bye-bye.

4 CUSTOMER 2: Bye-bye.

5 —o0o—

6 ///

7 ///

8 ///





















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you,

5 please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yeah. Hi. Who is this?

7 SALESMAN: This is SALESMAN. Who’s this?

8 CUSTOMER: Salesman, this is Dion

9 Smith in — I don’t know if you know. It would be

10 a tan Honda.

11 SALESMAN: Yes, Dion.

12 CUSTOMER: You know me?

13 SALESMAN: No, I don’t, but I can help

14 you.

15 CUSTOMER: Okay. I just rented the

16 car last month on the 13th.

17 Hello?

18 SALESMAN: Yes, Dion.

19 CUSTOMER: Okay. And today’s the

20 13th, and I have to return the car.

21 SALESMAN: Yes, sir.

22 CUSTOMER: Okay. And there was a

23 question that I wanted to ask you.

24 One guy over there that I (inaudible)

25 the car, rented the car from, he told me that the



1 second month, if I should want to keep it, he’ll

2 charge me $300 for it.

3 SALESMAN: Okay, and who was that?

4 CUSTOMER: I really don’t know. I

5 think Tom?

6 SALESMAN: Okay. Tom. Tom is off today,

7 I’m afraid.

8 CUSTOMER: Is David there?

9 SALESMAN: David’s here, but he’s with a

10 customer.

11 I’ll tell you what. Can I have David

12 give you a phone call right back?

13 CUSTOMER: No. I’m calling from a

14 pay phone here.

15 SALESMAN: Well, he’s with a customer

16 right now. You want to call him back in about ten

17 minutes?

18 CUSTOMER: If — you have to get an

19 okay from him in order for that?

20 SALESMAN: Yeah, because I’ve never heard

21 of that.

22 CUSTOMER: Yeah, because I rented

23 the car for $400, and then he said $300.

24 SALESMAN: Okay. Well, I believe what

25 you’re saying, but, you know, to verify that, Dave



1 would have to —

2 CUSTOMER: Why don’t you do this.

3 Why don’t you, in case I call back and David’s

4 still not around, why don’t you run out and ask

5 him, and I’ll call back in ten minutes.

6 SALESMAN: Sounds good.

7 CUSTOMER: Okay. Who am I speaking

8 to?

9 SALESMAN: Salesman.

10 CUSTOMER: Salesman. Okay.

11 SALESMAN: Do you have the car keys

12 nearby?

13 CUSTOMER: The car keys? Yeah.

14 SALESMAN: Yeah. Give me the three-digit

15 number on the key ring, please.

16 CUSTOMER: Okay. Number 287.

17 SALESMAN: Okay. I’ll find out for you.

18 CUSTOMER: Okay. Find out —

19 SALESMAN: Thank you.

20 CUSTOMER: — tell him that the car,

21 this car, if I should —

22 SALESMAN: Pardon me (inaudible).

23 CUSTOMER: Hello?

24 SALESMAN: I’m here.

25 CUSTOMER: Yeah. If I should want



1 to keep a car from you guys, this one I have to

2 exchange because this one has a bad oil leak.

3 SALESMAN: Okay. We’ll work it out. Oh,

4 it’s an oil leak.

5 CUSTOMER: Oil, leak, yeah.


7 CUSTOMER: And I’ve spotted in the

8 last four days. I brought it in last week —

9 SALESMAN: Okay. Just give us a call

10 back in about ten minutes and we’ll get it worked

11 out for you.

12 CUSTOMER: Thank you.

13 SALESMAN: Thank you.

14 —o0o—

15 ///

16 ///

17 ///












2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you,

5 please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes. Hi. Do you have any vans

7 or pickups available for this afternoon?

8 SALESMAN: I have a cargo van.

9 CUSTOMER: Okay. How much is that?

10 SALESMAN: That runs 39.95, and it’s 20

11 cents a mile.

12 CUSTOMER: Where are you located?

13 SALESMAN: 12333 Pico.

14 Do you plan on driving locally around

15 L.A.?

16 CUSTOMER: I want — yeah. Just Santa

17 Monica.

18 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

19 CUSTOMER: Okay. And that’s — okay, so

20 it’s empty. It doesn’t have seats in it or –

21 SALESMAN: No. Yeah. It’s empty van.

22 CUSTOMER: Oh. What I have to do to move

23 a small couch (inaudible) here. Will that do it?

24 SALESMAN: That would do it, um-hmm.

25 CUSTOMER: Okay. Would you hold it for



1 me? I’ll be over to pick it up.

2 SALESMAN: What’s your name?



5 CUSTOMER: a-b-n-e-y


7 CUSTOMER: All right. And, again, you

8 said you’re at 1233 Pico?

9 SALESMAN: 12333 Pico.

10 CUSTOMER: Okay. And what’s your cross

11 street?

12 SALESMAN: Centinela, right on the

13 corner.

14 CUSTOMER: Okay. What (inaudible).

15 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck (inaudible).

16 CUSTOMER: Fine.

17 SALESMAN: Okay.

18 —o0o—

19 ///

20 ///

21 ///








2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you,

5 please?

6 CUSTOMER: Hi. What (inaudible) you

7 located?

8 SALESMAN: My address, 12333 Pico.

9 CUSTOMER: 12333 Pico?

10 SALESMAN: Correct.

11 CUSTOMER: And what’s the nearest cross

12 street?

13 SALESMAN: Right on the corner of

14 Centinela, sir.

15 CUSTOMER: Centinela. Thank you, sir.

16 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

17 ///

18 ///

19 ///










2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes, sir. I’m

7 interested — I want to get some rates for renting

8 a car in Los Angeles towards the end of July.

9 Be picking up July 25th and returning

10 August 1st.

11 SALESMAN: Okay. Is it local driving

12 or long distance?

13 CUSTOMER: Local.

14 SALESMAN: Okay. And your —

15 CUSTOMER: We might go to San Diego,

16 but I don’t know how —

17 SALESMAN: That’s fine.

18 Now, you’re at least 25 and you have a

19 credit card of your own?


21 SALESMAN: Okay. Let’s see. Hit me

22 with that date, that July date?

23 CUSTOMER: July 25th and return

24 August 1st.

25 SALESMAN: All right. Let me see how



1 many days in August here.

2 CUSTOMER: It would be seven days.

3 SALESMAN: Seven days? Okay.

4 What size car do you need?

5 CUSTOMER: You know, I don’t — there’s

6 just two of us, so probably a small car.

7 SALESMAN: Okay. No problem. I would

8 have cars at $149 per week, and if you’re flying

9 into L.A. we provide free local pickup service from

10 the airport too.

11 CUSTOMER: Oh, okay. Oh, you guys

12 don’t have an office at the airport?

13 SALESMAN: Not at the airport. We’re

14 about five miles north.

15 CUSTOMER: And is that mileage, no

16 mileage?

17 SALESMAN: You get 500 miles free for

18 the week.

19 CUSTOMER: All right.

20 SALESMAN: And San Diego is about 120

21 miles from L.A.

22 CUSTOMER: Right. Okay. Great. Okay.

23 We’re just trying to —

24 SALESMAN: Okay.

25 CUSTOMER: (Simultaneous, inaudible)



1 right now. Thank you.

2 SALESMAN: Thanks for calling.

3 Bye-bye.

4 —o0o—

5 ///

6 ///

7 ///






















2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yeah. I need to know what

7 your rates are. I need to rent a car for about a

8 week.

9 SALESMAN: Starting when, please?

10 CUSTOMER: Well, possibly starting

11 today.

12 SALESMAN: Okay. No problem.

13 Are you going to be the only person

14 driving?

15 CUSTOMER: Yes. Well, I’m really

16 calling for my boyfriend.

17 SALESMAN: Okay.

18 CUSTOMER: His car blew up.

19 SALESMAN: Oh, I see.

20 CUSTOMER: And he needs it for a week,

21 and he’ll be the only one driving it.

22 SALESMAN: Okay. That’s great. Now,

23 he’s at least 25?

24 CUSTOMER: Yes. He’s much older than

25 that.



1 SALESMAN: And he has a credit card of

2 his own, I guess, right?


4 SALESMAN: Okay. Do you know what size

5 car he wants?

6 CUSTOMER: I think probably your

7 cheapest model.

8 SALESMAN: Okay. We would have them

9 starting at $129 per week.

10 CUSTOMER: 129 a week.

11 SALESMAN: Yeah. And if he needs to be

12 picked up, if he’s not too far, we do provide free

13 local pick up service, too.

14 CUSTOMER: Oh, great. And what time do

15 you close?

16 SALESMAN: We close at 4:00. We can

17 pick him up as late as 3:30.

18 CUSTOMER: As late as 3:30.

19 SALESMAN: Yeah.

20 CUSTOMER: And —

21 SALESMAN: Do you know what area he’s

22 going to be in?

23 CUSTOMER: We live in Santa Monica.

24 SALESMAN: Oh, that’s okay.

25 CUSTOMER: Where are you located?



1 SALESMAN: I’m just on the other side

2 of Santa Monica, Pico and Centinela.

3 CUSTOMER: Pico and Centinela.

4 SALESMAN: Yeah. That’s three blocks

5 west of Bundy.

6 CUSTOMER: Three blocks what of Bundy?

7 SALESMAN: Three blocks west of Bundy.

8 CUSTOMER: Oh. West of Bundy

9 SALESMAN: On Pico. Yeah.

10 CUSTOMER: Okay. That’s not too far

11 from us.

12 SALESMAN: Did you want us to hold one

13 for him?

14 CUSTOMER: He wanted me to check the

15 prices.

16 SALESMAN: Okay.

17 CUSTOMER: And I guess they go from 129

18 a week up.

19 SALESMAN: Yeah. Um-hmm.

20 CUSTOMER: Okay. I will get back to

21 you within the hour or so.

22 SALESMAN: No problem. Thanks for

23 calling.

24 CUSTOMER: Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.

25 —o0o—




2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you,

5 please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yes. Do you all rent to

7 persons under 25?

8 SALESMAN: How old are you?


10 SALESMAN: 21. Do you have a credit card

11 in your name?

12 CUSTOMER: Yes, sir.

13 SALESMAN: Yeah, we can help you.

14 CUSTOMER: Okay.

15 SALESMAN: Starting when did you need

16 that?

17 CUSTOMER: On Tuesday.

18 SALESMAN: For how long?

19 CUSTOMER: Just the day.

20 SALESMAN: Local use right here in L.A.,

21 or are you taking a trip out someplace?

22 CUSTOMER: I’m taking it out of town,

23 San Luis Obispo.

24 SALESMAN: San Luis Obispo and then back

25 again? Sure, I have a car available.



1 Being that you’re under the age of 25,

2 it’s an additional charge of $25 per day for the

3 rental car. The car itself will be 29.95 a day.


5 SALESMAN: Plus the $10 charge.


7 SALESMAN: You get 100 miles free per day

8 with the car.

9 CUSTOMER: Okay. And what is the

10 excess charge for —

11 SALESMAN: Beyond that will be 20 cents a

12 mile.

13 CUSTOMER: Okay. And what is your

14 insurance policy?

15 SALESMAN: The cars come with liability

16 free of charge. The collision damage waiver is

17 optional. It’s $9 a day.

18 CUSTOMER: Okay. Great. Thanks so

19 much.

20 SALESMAN: You’re welcome.

21 —o0o—

22 ///

23 ///

24 ///





2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Hello. Rent a Wreck. May I

5 help you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: Yeah. Hi. I just called

7 and you gave me a rate of $129 a week.

8 SALESMAN: Yes, ma’am.

9 CUSTOMER: Is that unlimited mileage or

10 do I have to pay for miles?

11 SALESMAN: We’ll give you 500 miles a

12 week free.

13 CUSTOMER: 500 miles a week?

14 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

15 CUSTOMER: Thank you very much.

16 SALESMAN: Okay.


18 —o0o—

19 ///

20 ///

21 ///








2 between Salesman and Customer:


4 SALESMAN: Hello. Rent a Wreck. May I

5 help you, please?

6 CUSTOMER: I’m calling to see if you

7 guys happen to have any cars available.

8 SALESMAN: Today?


10 SALESMAN: Sure. We have a few.

11 CUSTOMER: What’s the cheapest ones

12 you have available?

13 SALESMAN: Okay. And when would you need

14 one? How long would you need one for? I’m sorry.

15 CUSTOMER: Actually, (inaudible)

16 probably until Monday.

17 SALESMAN: Monday. Okay. And you just

18 plan on driving locally and around Los Angeles with

19 the vehicle?

20 CUSTOMER: Yes, yes.

21 SALESMAN: And you’re age 25 and older?

22 CUSTOMER: 23.

23 SALESMAN: 23. Okay. That’s fine. Do

24 you have a major credit card (inaudible) your name,

25 sir?




2 SALESMAN: Okay. When you get your car,

3 just the only thing, we have to charge you a $10

4 per day underage charge. We can get you a car.

5 What we have is 24.95 per day.

6 CUSTOMER: Really.

7 SALESMAN: Plus $10 a day underage.

8 CUSTOMER: All right. Because my car

9 is in the shop.


11 CUSTOMER: That’s why.

12 SALESMAN: We can pick you up. Where are

13 you located right now?

14 CUSTOMER: Actually, see, I had a

15 U-Haul truck.

16 SALESMAN: Um-hmm.

17 CUSTOMER: And I have to return that,

18 and it’s kind of near you guys.

19 SALESMAN: Okay.

20 CUSTOMER: I’ll just walk over there.

21 I have to go to U-Haul on Olympic and — what is

22 it? Centinela? I have to go over there, so you’re

23 just down the block, right?

24 SALESMAN: We’re not far.

25 CUSTOMER: Yeah.



1 SALESMAN: You want to book a

2 reservation, sir?


4 SALESMAN: Okay. Well, actually we can

5 pick you up there from the U-Haul place.

6 CUSTOMER: That’s all right. I’ll

7 walk.

8 SALESMAN: What is your name, please?


10 SALESMAN: Your last name, John?

11 CUSTOMER: Starge, S-t-a-r-g-e

12 SALESMAN: And your phone number?

13 CUSTOMER: 310-316- —

14 SALESMAN: 316?

15 CUSTOMER: 5075.

16 SALESMAN: Okay. I’ll have you set up.

17 And you know exactly where I’m at? I’m on

18 Centinela and Pico.

19 CUSTOMER: Okay. What kind of car is

20 this?

21 SALESMAN: Well, we got a few here that

22 you can choose from.

23 CUSTOMER: All right. Thanks.

24 SALESMAN: Okay.

25 —o0o—




2 between Salesman and Man:


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help you,

5 please?

6 RESTAURANT MAN: It’s ordered, sir.

7 SALESMAN: What — okay. You ordered it?

8 MAN: Yeah.

9 SALESMAN: So what did you order?

10 MAN: Sandwiches.

11 SALESMAN: Okay. How many? I’m trying

12 to get a monetary figure here.

13 MAN: Okay. We got one — quarter

14 sandwiches and a salad (inaudible) — five things.

15 Could be like around 25 bucks.

16 SALESMAN: All right. That’s cool. All

17 right.

18 Later.

19 —o0o—

20 ///

21 ///

22 ///







2 between Salesman and (No response):


4 SALESMAN: (inaudible). May I help

5 you?

6 (Dial tone.)

7 —o0o—

8 ///

9 ///

10 ///



















2 between Salesman and Beth Meyer


4 SALESMAN: Rent a Wreck. May I help

5 you, please?

6 BETH MEYER: Yes. I called about an

7 hour ago and reserved a car, I guess —


9 BETH MEYER: — under Beth Meyer.

10 SALESMAN: I’m sorry. What was that?

11 BETH MEYER: It was under Beth

12 Meyer

13 SALESMAN: Okay.

14 BETH MEYER: And can you come pick us

15 up now?

16 SALESMAN: Sure. Let me just get your

17 reservation out, okay?

18 BETH MEYER: Okay.

19 SALESMAN: One second, please.

20 We rented a car (inaudible) — I mean,

21 I called her —

22 RADIO ANNOUNCER: Preliminary and the

23 wind. The two one fast ball again outside, high

24 and outside —

25 BETH MEYER: (Simultaneous,



1 inaudible) and pick up the car.

2 RADIO ANNOUNCER: — and (inaudible)

3 ahead of the count, three balls, one strike.

4 SALESMAN: Okay, Liz. Where are you?

5 (End of Tape 1, Side A.)

6 —o0o—

7 ///

8 ///

9 ///



















1 (Tape 1, Side B begins:)



4 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:


6 (Dial tone.)

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Hey, Ev.

8 MR. CHANDLER: Hi, Dave.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: How you doing?

10 Thanks for calling me back.

11 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. I’m in the car.

12 I’m on the way home.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

14 MR. CHANDLER: Where are you?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’m at work.

16 MR. CHANDLER: You’re at [tape

17 irregularity].

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: You want to come by

19 here?

20 MR. CHANDLER: No. I’m wasted, Man.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I’m — we

22 gotta talk this out.

23 MR. CHANDLER: Nothing to talk about.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Of course we can talk it

25 out.



1 MR. CHANDLER: Just be there tomorrow

2 if you want to hear what I want to say. That’s

3 all. And if they’re not there, then there’s

4 nothing that anybody has to say, and that’s the end

5 of it.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask you

7 this:


9 MR. SCHWARTZ: What if like, say, June

10 and I are there?

11 MR. CHANDLER: No good.


13 MR. CHANDLER: They all have to be

14 there.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: They all have to be

16 there.

17 In fact, if anybody were missing, it

18 would be June that I wouldn’t care the most.


20 MR. CHANDLER: June. The one that I

21 car the most about —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. How about if

23 Jordy and I go?

24 MR. CHANDLER: No. Jordy and you?

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: And me?




5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s silly. No.

6 Michael has to be there. Michael has to be there.

7 He’s the main one. He’s the one I want.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think

9 he’s a bad guy?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael?

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: He’s an evil guy. He’s

13 worse than bad.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you

15 believe that?


17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why do you believe that?

18 MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence to

19 prove it.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: You’ll believe it, too,

22 when you hear —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Let me ask you

24 something. I mean, you trust me, right?

25 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you



1 this way, Dave. Nobody in this world was allowed

2 to come between this family of June, me and Jordy.

3 That was the hard [tape irregularity] be the

4 opposite. That’s evil. That’s one reason why he’s

5 evil.

6 I spoke to him about it, Dave. I even

7 told him that [tape irregularity] the family.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: When did you talk to

9 him?

10 MR. CHANDLER: About that?

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: Months ago. When I

13 first met him I told him that.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the law. That’s

16 the first thing he knew. Nobody’s allowed to do

17 that. Now there’s no family anymore.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: I mean

20 Jordy’s — Jordy’s my life. Period.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it.

22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

23 inaudible) my life.

24 What?

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: How does this help it?



1 MR. CHANDLER: It doesn’t. It doesn’t.

2 I don’t know how it’ll help it. It can’t hurt it

3 anymore. It’s — I have — that’s why I have

4 nothing to lose.

5 I made this really clear to them. If

6 they’re all there, we could all sit and talk. If

7 they’re not there —

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, let me ask —

9 okay.

10 MR. CHANDLER: — taking it out of my

11 hands, and there won’t be any talking anymore.

12 They have a chance. They have a chance to talk it

13 out.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: If they’re not in a

16 calm, peaceful manner —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — even said you can be

19 there. You could be there. I’m not going to do

20 anything with you there. Michael can come with 20

21 bodyguards and all with guns if he wants to. He

22 can even come there with his [tape irregularity].

23 I don’t care. All I’m saying is everybody who’s a

24 party to this (inaudible) sit down and talk about

25 it.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don’t disagree

2 with that.


4 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, we’re not. See,

5 now —

6 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t want to be

7 there, then they have made it to the point where I

8 can’t talk to them about it —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — so I have to force

11 them to the table —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, no. I don’t

13 disagree with everyone sits down and talks about

14 it.

15 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s what I’m

16 calling — that’s what I called him about. Hello?

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, that was the

18 message on the machine?

19 MR. CHANDLER: No. The man — yeah.

20 That was the message on the machine. It said

21 they’d better be there, because on the other times

22 they tried — hello?

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: The other times I tried

25 to tell them that I needed to talk to them, all I



1 got was, “Go fuck yourself. We’re not talking to

2 you.”

3 So now I had to let them know and make

4 sure that they know they’d [tape irregularity]

5 they’re gonna get hurt by it, so (inaudible) — I

6 had to make [tape irregularity] if they don’t sit

7 down and talk to me they’re gonna get hurt. They

8 can’t keep telling me to go fuck myself anymore.

9 They have to talk. I want to talk to them. I

10 don’t want to hurt anybody. They’re forcing me to

11 do it. They’re forcing me to do it by refusing to

12 sit down and talk to me. That’s all I ask for.

13 “You sit down and you talk to me [tape

14 irregularity] side of the story, I’ll listen to

15 yours, we all sit down and see how it could be

16 resolved.”

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So that’s

18 there —

19 MR. CHANDLER: That’s all I ask for.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but —

21 MR. CHANDLER: Michael can come with

22 all his bodyguards and his lawyer if he wants to.

23 I don’t really care, as long as everything gets

24 aired out. That’s it. And if I walk away

25 dissatisfied, then I’ll take it to the next step.



1 That’s all. If they walk away dissatisfied, they

2 have the right to do that, too. At least [tape

3 irregularity] nothing will get resolved except for

4 the fact that we’ll agree to meet again and talk

5 about it.


7 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know where it’ll

8 go, but I’m saying is that when people — when

9 you — when people cut off communication totally,

10 you only have two choices: To forget about them,

11 or you get frustrated by their action. I can’t

12 forget about them. I love them. That’s it. I

13 don’t like them. I still love Jordy, but I do not

14 like them because I do not like the people that

15 they’ve become, but I do love them, and because I

16 love them I don’t want to see them [tape

17 irregularity]. That’s why I was willing to talk.

18 I have nothing to gain by talking. If

19 I go through with this, I win big time. There’s no

20 way that I lose. I’ve checked that out inside out.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when you say

22 “winning,” what are you talking about, “winning”?

23 MR. CHANDLER: I will get everything I

24 want, and they will be totally — they will be

25 destroyed forever. They will be destroyed. June



1 is gonna lose Jordy. She will have no right to

2 ever see him again.


4 MR. CHANDLER: That’s a fact, Dave.

5 That’s what —

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help —

7 MR. CHANDLER: — Michael the career

8 will be over.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does that help Jordy?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Michael’s career will be

11 over.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: And does that help

13 Jordy?

14 MR. CHANDLER: It’s irrelevant to me.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but I mean the

16 bottom line is —

17 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line to me

18 is, yes, June is harming him, and Michael is

19 harming him. I can prove that, and I will prove

20 that

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — and if they force me

23 to go to court about it, I will [tape

24 irregularity], and I will be granted custody. She

25 will have no rights whatsoever.




2 MR. CHANDLER: Now, I’m willing to sit

3 down and talk to her. If she wants to tell me to

4 go fuck myself after that, she’s welcome to do it,

5 and then she’ll either be right or wrong. [tape

6 irregularity] I’ll win, maybe I’ll lose. I have

7 the [tape irregularity]

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: [tape irregularity] for

9 custody?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Forget the custody

11 thing. It’s gonna go further than that.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what’s the

13 bottom — I mean, what is the bottom line, though?

14 MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is, I

16 mean, your responsibility and my responsibility —

17 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line

18 (simultaneous, inaudible) what I want?


20 MR. CHANDLER: Is that what you’re

21 saying?

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I mean —

23 MR. CHANDLER: — what I want?

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, what’s our

25 responsibility in life, really?



1 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you don’t have any

2 right —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: The kids is the number

4 one —

5 MR. CHANDLER: — to discuss that.


7 MR. CHANDLER: You don’t have any right

8 to discuss that.


10 MR. CHANDLER: You’re a negligent

11 father. You don’t have a right, by your own

12 admission before. You told me that you were

13 negligent.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: You were negligent to

16 Jordy, and you’ve been negligent to Kelly.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: In a court — in a court

19 of law, June could prove you negligent in one flat

20 fucking second.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. So?

22 MR. CHANDLER: You don’t have any right

23 to all of a sudden decide that you’re going to be a

24 good father or have a conversation about what’s

25 right to do. I’ve never condemned you for it. I



1 know what you’re going through [tape irregularity]

2 that. I understand you have to stay away in order

3 to be a normal human being. I understand that, but

4 no one’s gonna give a shit about that in court.

5 You and I live [tape irregularity] but

6 I’m still living through it every day at my office,

7 and it’s just bad for me too, believe me, and I

8 understand you really well, and I know why [tape

9 irregularity] she’ll make you look bad in one

10 second.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I don’t disagree

12 with that.

13 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, this time

14 it’s gonna be the other way around because

15 she — you see, I love him so much that I’m willing

16 to destroy my own life to protect him —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — to do what I think is

19 the best thing to do, not just — it’s not what I

20 think. I’ve gotten professional [tape

21 irregularity] everybody agrees that the only thing

22 that was insane is that I didn’t step in a long —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: This is —

24 MR. CHANDLER: This is —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: — detrimental to him?



1 MR. CHANDLER: Extremely harmful to

2 him.


4 MR. CHANDLER: Everybody agrees with

5 that. I mean, they — it’s their opinions that

6 have convinced me to not stay away.

7 You know, I’m not confrontational.

8 I’ve got an [tape irregularity] inclination to do

9 what you do, say, “Okay. Go fuck yourself. Go do

10 what you want to do, and, you know, call me some

11 day. I’ll see you then. I got a [tape

12 irregularity],” but I’ve been so convinced by

13 professional opinions that I have been negligent in

14 not stepping in sooner that now it’s made me

15 insane. Now I actually feel [tape irregularity] —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, I do, and I —

17 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity]

18 more important than the money, if the kid’s more

19 important that you are, and they’re more important

20 than I am —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: And they are.

22 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Then —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But let me ask —

24 MR. CHANDLER: — by action, Dave.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, but —



1 MR. CHANDLER: Staying away from the

2 family is not a good way of indicating that you

3 care about your family. It’s a copout, and you —

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don’t know if

5 it’s a copout. It might be the —

6 MR. CHANDLER: My feeling is, Dave, my

7 feeling is that when you have really good

8 communication with somebody, you don’t have to stay

9 away from them.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what happens when

11 you —

12 MR. CHANDLER: — agree, but at least

13 you could talk. You know, as long as you’re

14 talking, nobody’s gonna get hurt. When the talking

15 stops, that’s when people get hurt.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And that’s what

17 happened with you?

18 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, that’s what

19 happened with me. They won’t return my phone

20 calls. June called me once last week.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: She told me to go fuck

23 myself. Not in those words.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: But you don’t have to



1 say it in those words.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: But you know June.


4 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know her

5 thing is that she has to get the last word in.

6 MR. CHANDLER: Well, she isn’t this

7 time, Dave, and you want to know something —

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but you put her

9 down for that?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Do I put her down?

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: For that?

12 MR. CHANDLER: I never did before, but

13 when her getting her last word is now going to be

14 harmful to Jordy, yes, I am going to step in, and,

15 again, I’m not telling you this is my — my opinion

16 was formed by —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — but this is my

19 perception of [tape irregularity] professional

20 opinions to make sure I wasn’t going off the deep

21 end here.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: And all I’m telling you

24 is — I’ve always said this to June, and I’ve said

25 this to Monique also, and I’ll say this to anybody



1 I can. No matter what I do, you’re wrong

2 automatically if you don’t sit down and talk about

3 it, because my feeling is [tape irregularity] and

4 you [tape irregularity] talk anything will be

5 worked out. But as soon as you cut off

6 communication you only frustrate the other person.

7 And that makes — and that makes you wrong [tape

8 irregularity] worse that way.

9 You say to them, “I don’t care enough

10 about you to sit down and talk.”

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t disagree with

12 that.

13 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s all I was

14 asking. I’ve asked them for a month to sit down

15 and talk to me, and I’m very disturbed and very

16 concerned. I want them to hear my concerns.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: Let them just tell me

19 why I’m wrong. Let them just tell me that [tape

20 irregularity] detrimental, et cetera. Let them

21 just tell me that. And maybe I’ll disagree with

22 them, and then we’ll take it from there.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But at least you can

24 talk about it.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, they will



1 not talk.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

4 inaudible) forced me —

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

6 MR. CHANDLER: What do I do? I mean,

7 in the opinion of these experts, I would be a

8 negligent father if I did not do what I am now

9 doing.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, in their

12 opinion I have been negligent not to put a stop to

13 [tape irregularity] opinion.

14 I happen to agree with them now. I

15 didn’t agree with them at first.

16 Michael [tape irregularity] nice [tape

17 irregularity] —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: So why do you think he’s

19 not nice?

20 MR. CHANDLER: Why? Because he broke

21 up the family, that’s why.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: And he was put on notice

24 from the first sentence out of my mouth was,

25 “Michael, I think you’re really a great guy.



1 You’re welcome into the family, as long as you are

2 who you seem to be, but don’t take anything [tape

3 irregularity].” I mean, that to me was the worst

4 thing anybody could do to me.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think he did it?

6 MR. CHANDLER: Well, Dave, if he wasn’t

7 in the picture, everything would be as it was.

8 I’m not —

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: But that’s sort of —

10 MR. CHANDLER: — saying that he did it

11 premeditatively, and I’m not saying he did it on

12 his own.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m saying that he might

15 have — it might have just evolved that way, and it

16 might have evolved that [tape irregularity] desire,

17 so I’m blaming all three of them, but when I come

18 to that [tape irregularity], it really makes me

19 hate June because the family was inviolate, [tape

20 irregularity] felt about it. There was nothing I

21 had.

22 I mean, you came in this family and

23 made it better. It was great. Someone else comes

24 along and breaks it up.

25 You know how [tape irregularity].



1 Okay. So do I [tape irregularity] coming into the

2 family who’s going to do good things for the

3 family.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean —

5 MR. CHANDLER: Michael divided and

6 conquered, Dave.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: He what?

8 MR. CHANDLER: He divided and

9 conquered.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

11 MR. CHANDLER: He did, Dave. He did.


13 MR. CHANDLER: June and I agreed on the

14 issue, whether it was her side or my side. If we

15 both thought the same way [tape irregularity] any

16 frustration. The fact is we both do not think the

17 same way, and he — and I sincerely believe that he

18 either consciously [tape irregularity] manipulated

19 that. I think he consciously manipulated that

20 because Michael Jackson [tape irregularity] the

21 smartest streetwise people —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — that I’ve ever met,

24 and if you sit down and have any long conversations

25 with him, [tape irregularity] that guy is extremely



1 bright.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So is that good or bad?

3 MR. CHANDLER: That he’s bright?


5 MR. CHANDLER: I think that if you use

6 it for bad then you’re evil.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, do you think he’s

8 sensitive?

9 MR. CHANDLER: Do I what?

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know him a

11 lot better than I know him. I don’t know him. I

12 mean, I’ve talked to him a couple times, but —

13 MR. CHANDLER: I thought I knew him.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think he’s

15 sensitive?

16 MR. CHANDLER: I think he’s totally

17 insensitive. I think he’s sensitive — I think

18 he’s an extremely selfish person.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that he

20 knows what was going on?

21 MR. CHANDLER: Of course he knows that.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, this is the

23 bottom line. The bottom line is I abandoned the

24 family.

25 MR. CHANDLER: What?



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: The bottom line is I

2 abandoned the family. That’s the bottom line.

3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

4 inaudible) line —

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: — so this is —

6 MR. CHANDLER: The bottom line

7 is — the bottom line is he took Jordy out of the

8 family with June’s help.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, yes and no, but, I

10 mean, there’s a lot of things, and I — I mean,

11 you’re bright, you’re sensitive —

12 MR. CHANDLER: Why don’t I put it this

13 way, Dave. If you were there all the time, living

14 in that house —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldn’t have

16 happened.

17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right. It

18 wouldn’t have even had a chance to happen.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: It wouldn’t have

20 happened, and I — it’s all my fault.

21 MR. CHANDLER: No, it isn’t all your

22 fault.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: It is definitely a

24 hundred percent my fault.

25 MR. CHANDLER: I’ll tell you what.



1 Whenever you have an argument with somebody, when I

2 have an argument with Monique, when you have an

3 argument with June, if I have an argument with you,

4 it’s rarely one sided. There’s almost — you know,

5 there’s always two sides to every —

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. There’s ten sides

7 to every —

8 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

9 inaudible) you can’t tell me, realistically, that

10 June didn’t frustrate the hell out of you so many

11 times that you finally left the house just to be

12 sane, just to be alone and come back to your own

13 sanity to get anyplace with her.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I agree

15 with that completely, but the only thing is

16 what — see, I haven’t only done it with June. I

17 do it in every other relationship and in my work

18 relationships.

19 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then —

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: So it’s my hangup.

21 MR. CHANDLER: — problem with that,

22 then that problem has ultimately ended up bringing

23 the family to this point. But you’re not solely to

24 blame for it. It doesn’t mean that June was

25 still — I didn’t do anything that — they didn’t



1 have the right to take my kid away from me, to

2 break up the family.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

4 I’m in my garage. Can I call you back

5 from the house?


7 MR. CHANDLER: At the same number?


9 MR. CHANDLER: If I don’t call you back

10 in five minutes it means it’s off my pager. Call

11 me at the house.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

13 MR. CHANDLER: I’m in the garage right

14 now.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.



18 —o0o—

19 ///

20 ///

21 ///








2 between Dave Schwartz and Evan Chandler:



5 MR. CHANDLER: Hi. I’m on a cordless

6 phone, so let’s not use —

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Don’t you have a regular

8 phone?

9 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, but it’s in the

10 kitchen, and I don’t want to go upstairs.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m still wasted, Man.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Not as tired as me. Oh,

14 you’re probably as tired as me.

15 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I mean, we just

16 don’t — we don’t have to mention any names.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. If we could do

18 this: If — I’m telling you, and you know

19 I — just talking it out, I mean, I have a definite

20 communication problem in my — I mean, what happens

21 is when I get frustrated or I — I mean, I just

22 withdraw. I’ve been doing it forever. I mean,

23 I’ve done it forever with everything, and it works,

24 you know, for — it works for me. I mean because I

25 get through it and it just works and then I’m back



1 and it’s no —

2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, except do you want

3 to know something? That can also be — you think

4 that that’s the best way to do something, but if

5 you look at it closely, I mean, I’ve always been

6 that way too. Nothing’s really worked (inaudible)

7 confrontation, and nothing’s as big a deal as it

8 seems [tape irregularity] —

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Oh, yeah.

10 MR. CHANDLER: — except — and so you

11 back off, and everything sort of takes care of

12 itself —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, in time.

14 MR. CHANDLER: — except in this time

15 my looking the other way and my failing to deal

16 with the issues have harmed my son greatly. I

17 believe that.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, are you talking

19 about harmed him in the relationship with you?

20 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s for sure.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: But —

22 MR. CHANDLER: — (inaudible) forever.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, I think

24 he’s frustrated about me and maybe taking it out on

25 you.




2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because — no. He has

3 said a few things in the past. You know, I’ve

4 disappeared for, you know, long periods of time.

5 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you have.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right. And he has

7 mentioned — you know, he’s a real sensitive kid —

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you take

9 total blame for it? It’s never one person’s fault.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Now I’m telling you it’s

11 my fault. I know it’s my fault, and —

12 MR. CHANDLER: You see —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: — whatever —

14 MR. CHANDLER: — you think by doing

15 that you might be — you might be doing a lot of

16 harm.

17 How many times can an [tape

18 irregularity] — when there’s two human beings

19 involved, there’s two sides to the story. I mean,

20 it’s automatic. Two people could witness the same

21 story in two different ways. What I’m saying is

22 that I was married to June. I’ve known June

23 since —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. For a long time.

25 MR. CHANDLER: — ’71 or something like



1 that, so what I’m saying is that I know her really

2 well. I think I do. Maybe I don’t. I guess I

3 don’t because I suddenly saw a part of her — a

4 side of her which I really hate.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but they’re into

6 survival.

7 MR. CHANDLER: What do you mean?

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: They’re into survival —

9 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

10 inaudible) are you talking about? What do you mean

11 “survival”? Because why? What makes it — what do

12 you mean?

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, they don’t

14 know what’s going on. I have made them — June’s

15 real macho —

16 MR. CHANDLER: That’s exactly right.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: — on the surface, and

18 underneath she’s just insecure like all of us.

19 Everyone is.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Dave —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Everyone’s insecure.

22 JFK was insecure. Everyone is.

23 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s the bottom line.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Let’s say they



1 are.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Now, I haven’t

3 really analyzed this until we’re just talking right

4 now.


6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I put the blame on me a

7 hundred percent.

8 MR. CHANDLER: You put the blame on

9 you —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Completely a hundred

11 percent.

12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m sorry. I —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Completely.

14 MR. CHANDLER: Let me put it to you

15 this way, okay? You put all of — you put the

16 three of them on the stand (simultaneous,

17 inaudible) —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: — any questions, and

20 they will all be asked questions, and they will all

21 have psychological examinations —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

24 inaudible) given lie detector tests.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: I’m going to tell you

2 what. There is no excuse in law for June having

3 done what she does. Despite the fact that you

4 might say it’s your fault —


6 MR. CHANDLER: — whatever you say is

7 going to [tape irregularity] capable of making her

8 own decisions —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — and she made those

11 decisions to the harm of her son, despite the fact

12 that, yeah, maybe she’s insecure, maybe she’s macho

13 on the surface, and maybe you fucked her over.

14 Maybe you did. Maybe you didn’t.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s gonna give a

17 shit about that. I know what you’re saying.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

19 MR. CHANDLER: And I agree with you,

20 and I think that had you two had a really good

21 [tape irregularity], maybe she wouldn’t have had to

22 do what she did.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

24 MR. CHANDLER: And I know what you’re

25 saying, and it breaks my heart, but I truly believe



1 my son is being harmed greatly and that his

2 life — he could be fucked up for the rest of his

3 life [tape irregularity].

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: You gotta tell me why

5 you think he’s being screwed up.

6 MR. CHANDLER: I have the evidence.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know, but what — I

8 don’t know what evidence. I don’t know what you’re

9 talking about.

10 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you’ll see.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why can’t you tell

12 me? I swear —

13 MR. CHANDLER: You show up in court and

14 you’ll see it on the big fucking screen —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what —

16 MR. CHANDLER: — and then you’ll know

17 what I’m talking about.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: And you’ll hear in on

20 tape recordings.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: You’ll hear it all.

23 You’ll see it all, just like I have.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: It cost me thousands,



1 tens of thousands of dollars —


3 MR. CHANDLER: — to get the

4 information I got, and I — you know I don’t have

5 that kind of money —


7 MR. CHANDLER: — and I spent it, and

8 I’m willing to spend more, and I’m willing —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — to go down

11 financially to —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that’s

13 going to help Jordy?

14 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Jordy’s — I

15 believe that Jordy’s already irreparably harmed.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: That’s my true belief.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think

19 that he’s fucking him?

20 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t know. I have no

21 idea.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: But harmed in — in just

23 been spoiled?


25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Just tell me —



1 MR. CHANDLER: You know, you gotta

2 forgive me for one thing, but I have been told by

3 my lawyer that if I say one thing to anybody —

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Okay.

5 MR. CHANDLER: — don’t bother calling

6 him again. He said this case is so open [tape

7 irregularity] “You open your mouth and you blow

8 it,” he said, “just don’t come back to me.”

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. I respect that.

10 Okay.

11 MR. CHANDLER: Not that I don’t trust

12 you or anything —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know. I respect it.

14 MR. CHANDLER: You have a vested

15 interest in it —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

17 MR. CHANDLER: And let me tell you

18 this, by the way: What harm would it be to you,

19 what harm would it be to your relationship to June,

20 if Michael wasn’t around anymore?

21 You say that you [tape irregularity]

22 your fault. You say that you made her insecure.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait.

24 MR. CHANDLER: So if he wasn’t around

25 anymore —




2 MR. CHANDLER: — what do you think

3 she’s going to do? She’s going to come back to

4 you.

5 She doesn’t need you anymore. She

6 doesn’t even want you around anymore. She’s told

7 me and she’s told you — I’m sure she’s told you

8 that if [tape irregularity] Michael she’ll get rid

9 of you. She’s told me that. She means it.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

11 MR. CHANDLER: She means —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: The only thing I told

13 you before is I told her I didn’t want him buying

14 her things in Europe. I gave her some money. And

15 then when he did buy her things and she told me, I

16 got pissed off at her. And that’s it, and that’s

17 really the whole thing. That’s all we ever talked

18 about.

19 MR. CHANDLER: How do you feel about

20 her going off on tour with him? You told me when

21 you were there the other day that everybody’s been

22 calling you saying “Your wife’s been [tape

23 irregularity]” —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: It does [tape

25 irregularity] —



1 MR. CHANDLER: And let me tell you

2 something, by the way. That’s the best thing that

3 could happen to him, is that people think he’s

4 interested in June.


6 MR. CHANDLER: The fact is, he has no

7 interest in her whatsoever. The fact is he doesn’t

8 even care about her. He doesn’t even like her.

9 He’s [tape irregularity] —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think he likes

11 her?

12 MR. CHANDLER: I know he doesn’t. He

13 told me he doesn’t. He can’t stand her. He told

14 me that when —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Huh! He can’t stand

16 her?

17 MR. CHANDLER: No. He told me that

18 when he was in my house.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. At that point he

21 liked us better than — Jordy too. Jordy’s the

22 same as Michael. It was a simple divide and

Check out  The Jordie Chandler Settlement revisited

23 conquer. They felt us both out.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: They saw who was going



1 to let them do what they wanted to do, and then

2 they made their choice.


4 MR. CHANDLER: And until I had a talk

5 with Jordy one day at [tape irregularity] —


7 MR. CHANDLER: — they were gonna come

8 live with me. They were gonna pack up, leave

9 June’s house, and come here.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: That’s what they were

12 going to do, because they were getting more

13 resistance from her than they were getting from me.

14 You cannot tell this stuff — you cannot — I’m

15 confiding in you, okay, Dave?

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Right? That’s —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Absolutely.

19 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s to know this

20 conversation —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

23 inaudible) except you and me; is that right?

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

25 MR. CHANDLER: You promise me?



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I promise you.

2 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What I’m telling

3 you is that Jordy and Michael are users.


5 MR. CHANDLER: They had — they were

6 gonna — they had their own relationship.


8 MR. CHANDLER: They want to carry it

9 out the way they want to carry it out. They don’t

10 want anybody getting in the way [tape

11 irregularity] — least resistance, and that’s the

12 way they’re going. They simply divided and

13 conquered, and June went along with it. And she

14 was wrong because she did it to the detriment of

15 Jordy.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is not old enough

18 to make these kind of [tape irregularity] that he’s

19 making.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: But is that a huge life

21 decision?

22 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, you bet it is.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you — were

24 you — let me ask you this: Did you ever pull away

25 from your parents when you were a teenager?



1 MR. CHANDLER: I hated my parents.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think Jordy hates

3 you?

4 MR. CHANDLER: If he doesn’t, he’s

5 gonna hate me tomorrow.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why do you —

7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

8 inaudible) to —

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you want that?

10 MR. CHANDLER: It doesn’t matter what I

11 want.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why would you want

13 him to hate you, and why would you want to put him

14 through that —

15 MR. CHANDLER: Because all I care about

16 is what happens to him in the long run.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, the long run, is

18 that going to be healthy in the long run?

19 MR. CHANDLER: According to the

20 experts?

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: Absolutely.

23 According to the experts, if it goes on

24 the way it is, he’s doomed. He has no chance of

25 ever being a happy, healthy, normal human being, no



1 [tape irregularity].

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what happens if you

3 force him not to see him?

4 MR. CHANDLER: Not to see Michael?


6 MR. CHANDLER: Nobody’s saying for sure

7 what will happen. Most people’s feeling is that

8 he’s gonna go on and hate me for a long time and

9 then some day when he gets older he’ll thank me.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And why do you

11 think he hates you now?

12 MR. CHANDLER: I said I think

13 he’ll — I said he may or may not hate me now —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — but he’ll definitely

16 hate me tomorrow.

17 He’ll hate me, why? Because I’m taking

18 Michael away from him. That’s why.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: And that’s a —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: So you really think

22 Michael’s bad for him?

23 MR. CHANDLER: I know Michael’s bad for

24 him.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: You know how I know

2 that?

3 Why would somebody, Dave — if you tell

4 me this, think of this logically. What reason

5 would he want us split up — [tape irregularity]

6 would he want me out of the way? What would be the

7 reason, unless he has something to hide?


9 MR. CHANDLER: I know what he has to

10 hide. I happen to know what it is.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: But I can’t tell you.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay.

14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m just asking you in

15 terms of logic. You know me. I’m not — I’m a

16 pretty liberal guy.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: I don’t get in anybody’s

19 way, okay? So, I mean, what reason would he want

20 me out of the way to such an extent that neither

21 one of them will take my phone calls, neither one

22 of them will talk to me?

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think Jordy’s taken my

24 route of just withdrawing.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Well, one of the lessons



1 he’s gonna learn is that that route doesn’t work.

2 See, you just learned that lesson yourself. By you

3 withdrawing, as you said in your own words, you’re

4 the cause of this whole problem.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I think I am.

6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. So that’s what

7 withdrawal does for you.

8 My approach to the whole thing is that

9 the one person — the person who doesn’t talk is

10 the one who’s wrong, period —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — no matter what the

13 action was, I believe everything is preventable,

14 every bad action that anybody takes is — unless

15 you’re truly pathologic —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: — is probably

18 preventable if you just found somebody who would

19 sit [tape irregularity] you know what? They don’t

20 even have to talk back and give you [tape

21 irregularity] if you get it out, everything will be

22 okay, you know, but that’s my approach. My

23 approach is that the people who don’t talk are the

24 ones who are wrong.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: And I agree with that,



1 totally.

2 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then you’re wrong.


4 MR. CHANDLER: You (inaudible) —

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: I just said I am wrong,

6 but here is the other — I mean, the thing is

7 Jordy’s 13 years old. I’m talking about adults. I

8 mean, I don’t know if he — I mean, you’re his dad.

9 You’re his role model.

10 MR. CHANDLER: No, I’m not his role

11 model.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, you are,

13 definitely —

14 MR. CHANDLER: Not anymore.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: You are, positively, in

16 the long run, you’re his role model.

17 MR. CHANDLER: There is no — there

18 isn’t gonna be a long run if things went on like

19 this.

20 Don’t you see? As long as I go along

21 with whatever they want to do —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — everything’s okay.

24 As soon as I say you can’t [tape irregularity]

25 anybody —



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you go through that?

2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I went through

3 that.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: And how old were you?

5 MR. CHANDLER: Why do you — oh, with

6 my parents?


8 MR. CHANDLER: No, I didn’t go through

9 that with my parents. I never had any outside

10 influence on me —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — was more powerful

13 than my parents were.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, Michael is

15 very seductive, without even trying.

16 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, he’s trying, believe

17 me. He just looks like he’s not trying because

18 he’s so damn good at it.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I mean, it’s —

20 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, he fooled me —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — I’ll tell you that.

23 He fooled me, for a while.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think

25 this is —



1 MR. CHANDLER: There’s no reason why

2 they would have to cut me out unless they — unless

3 they need me to be away so they can do certain

4 things which I don’t think are good to be doing.


6 MR. CHANDLER: And I — and not only

7 that, but I don’t even have anything to say about

8 it, okay? [tape irregularity] I think what they’re

9 doing and it isn’t bad, and so maybe I’m wrong —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: — but I’m not even

12 getting a chance to express that.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think that’s all — I

14 think it’s all fair because —

15 MR. CHANDLER: I had a good

16 communication with Michael.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: We were friends, you

19 know. I liked him.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: I respected him and

22 everything else for what he is, you know. There

23 was no reason why he had to stop calling me. He

24 could have called me.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: In fact, Dave, I — you

2 ask Jordy. I sat in the room one day, and I talked

3 to Michael and told him exactly what I want out of

4 this whole relationship, what I want [tape

5 irregularity], okay, so he wouldn’t have to figure

6 me out.


8 MR. CHANDLER: And one of things I said

9 is we always have to be able to talk to each other.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: That’s the rule, okay,

12 because I know that as soon as you stop talking

13 weird things start going on and people [tape

14 irregularity] —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Imaginations take over.

16 MR. CHANDLER: Imagination will just

17 kill you.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

19 MR. CHANDLER: It causes all kinds of

20 problems, and so, I mean —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, can you do

22 this —

23 MR. CHANDLER: Do you think

24 you — look. Do you know what it’s like? You go

25 out with — listen. I — just that old expression,



1 you know. It came from some movie. How does it

2 go? “Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean

3 somebody isn’t [tape irregularity].”

4 You know that expression?


6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. What it really

7 means is that you may think I’m crazy —


9 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

10 inaudible) I’m thinking is actually right, but what

11 I’m saying to you is that I’ve had every single

12 girl — and I am not kidding you — every [tape

13 irregularity] ever gone out with, from the very

14 first girl to the very last, has cheated on me, and

15 I have never cheated on anybody.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: I would never.

18 Now, if I wanted to, based on that

19 history, I could be so fucking paranoid about

20 girls, I would never —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — be able to [tape

23 irregularity] relationship. I wouldn’t be able to

24 [tape irregularity] was like, I couldn’t have a

25 family. I’d be a fucking raving lunatic. Okay?




2 MR. CHANDLER: But what’s my point? My

3 point is that the only thing that keeps me from

4 getting that way is that I can talk about it and be

5 reassured [tape irregularity] on it in my

6 imagination — I mean, my wife’s not home tonight.


8 MR. CHANDLER: She’s gonna be at a

9 meeting until 2:00 o’clock in the morning.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

11 MR. CHANDLER: Right? This has

12 happened many times.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: She’s going to go away

15 to Cannes Film Festival next year —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: — right? Do you know

18 what that’s like?

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: That Film Festival’s a

21 fucking sex party.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: Next year, without me,

24 okay? Now, if I didn’t have a chance to talk to

25 her about my fears, my [tape irregularity],



1 probably shoot her, or I’d divorce her.


3 MR. CHANDLER: And I’m not saying her

4 as an individual. Wouldn’t matter who — I could

5 be married to Mother Teresa and I’d have the same

6 feeling. It’s just because of what [tape

7 irregularity] that I’ve been — my finger’s been

8 stuck in the electric socket so much that I don’t

9 want to get stuck in there again, so I keep — and

10 girls do that to me, you know? They keep fucking

11 me up, so —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: So what was —

13 MR. CHANDLER: — bothers me. I might

14 be totally irrational —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — but you want to know

17 why I’m not crazy about it at all and I have a

18 great relationship and I trust her and everything

19 is fine?

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: Because she’ll sit down

22 and she’ll talk to me about it.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: And she’s wildly in love

24 with you.

25 MR. CHANDLER: She tells me she is.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: She is.


3 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, it’s very

4 obvious.

5 MR. CHANDLER: And you want to know

6 what I told her? I told her this. I said

7 June — “Monique,” I said, “if you ever want to sleep

8 with somebody else or if you don’t love me anymore,

9 if you come to me and you tell me that [tape

10 irregularity] out of the house and fuck his brains

11 out, I’ll love you forever, I’ll support you and

12 wish you well. But if it’s the other way around,

13 you fuck him first and then you [tape

14 irregularity], I’ll kill you, period.” I said,

15 “Those are the rules. If you want to stay with me,

16 you gotta understand that’s the only way I can

17 survive. That’s how I live.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: It’s all comes — that’s

20 what really relationships —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, trust is real

22 important.

23 MR. CHANDLER: When you get down to

24 relationships like we — like really intimate ones,

25 okay?




2 MR. CHANDLER: Like you and I. I trust

3 you with my life.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

5 MR. CHANDLER: And I know you trust me

6 too.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

8 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? And with Moniquw, I

9 said, “That’s all I’m after.”

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: What does she say?

11 MR. CHANDLER: She said, “I understand.

12 That’s fine.” She said, “It’ll never happen. I

13 don’t know why you’re bringing it up, but if you’re

14 bringing it up, I won’t do it. Trust me. It won’t

15 happen.”

16 I said, “Okay. I’m just — I’m telling

17 you now ahead of time” —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s good

19 communication.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I mean, I’m not

21 being embarrassed by it —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — I’m not keeping it

24 inside. I want to have a good marriage and a good

25 relationship




2 MR. CHANDLER: — and I know this is

3 one issue that bothers me, no matter who that girl

4 would be.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

6 MR. CHANDLER: Okay? I’m not —

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: In any —

8 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

9 inaudible) personal against her.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

11 MR. CHANDLER: It’s just with me. It’s

12 my problem, and so I’m letting her know that I have

13 a problem. I’m not hiding anything. I’d not

14 trying to be macho cool dude about it.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

16 MR. CHANDLER: And so if I wasn’t able

17 to talk to her, this marriage would have been over

18 a long time ago.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Because [tape

21 irregularity] —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Don’t we learn like

23 that?

24 MR. CHANDLER: Because of my

25 imagination, Dave.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but don’t we learn

2 through experiences —

3 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

4 inaudible) want to know what I really think? I

5 really think most people don’t learn. I think at

6 some point in our lives we develop behavior

7 patterns, and even if we know that they’re wrong we

8 just can’t break them.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: You know —

10 MR. CHANDLER: Most people can’t change

11 their behaviors.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

13 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

14 inaudible) they are at a certain —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes and no, but I think

16 you get —

17 MR. CHANDLER: Look at you. Are you

18 going to change now because of what happened here?

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, interesting —

20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

21 inaudible) be different? Is your marriage going to

22 be better? Are you going to — you know, you guys

23 have no right to be married. I told June that

24 myself many times. She would call me all the time

25 and say, “Did Dave call Kelly? Did Dave call



1 Jordy?”

2 No.

3 What kind of fucking marriage do you

4 guys have? Why don’t you guys just split up so he

5 could see his kids, at least —


7 MR. CHANDLER: You know, if he doesn’t

8 want to come over to the house because of you, then

9 get divorced so he could see his kids. There’s

10 nothing wrong with that. You know, you might be

11 better friends. She and I were better friends when

12 we [tape irregularity], and what I’m saying to her

13 is that if there’s no — if there’s no

14 communication, there’s no sense in being together

15 with anybody, whether it’s a marriage or a

16 friendship or a business relationship. If you

17 cannot sit down and talk [tape irregularity]

18 ultimately gonna destruct, and that’s what happened

19 here. They shut me out from the most important

20 thing in my life. In fact, I don’t have a life. I

21 don’t want to have a life [tape irregularity].

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I understand it, too,

23 but I gotta tell you, in just talking to you this

24 time, see, Jordy’s copying me.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Well —



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, he’s positively

2 copying me. I mean, he’s been with both of us

3 since — I mean, I’ve had him since he’s — almost

4 as long as you have.

5 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: And he’s —

7 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

8 inaudible) had him as long as he’s been cognizant

9 of the fact of who’s around him —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, so —

11 MR. CHANDLER: — learned a lot from

12 you.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and one of the

14 things he learned, probably, was just to withdraw,

15 because I do it, but, you know, I’m not chastising

16 myself for it. I’m just looking at it objectively.

17 I mean, realistically. I mean, I would say —

18 MR. CHANDLER: You haven’t (inaudible)

19 and in some way it’s resonated throughout the

20 family —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — and partly been the

23 cause of all this happening.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right, but I mean he’s,

25 you know, he’s learned a lot of good things from



1 me.

2 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, I’m sure he —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, you know, I mean,

4 everyone’s not perfect.

5 MR. CHANDLER: No. Everyone’s not.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I think —

7 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible) expect

8 everyone to be, but you gotta expect people that

9 claim to love you to communicate with you because

10 if there’s communication there’s nothing.

11 What’s the sense of having your

12 relationship? People don’t even care enough about

13 you to — you tell them — I actually told June how

14 much I was hurting. I said —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — “I’m hurting, June.

17 I’m crying every day. I’m dying.”

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but they’re going

19 through every —

20 MR. CHANDLER: Do you know what she

21 said to me?

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: What?

23 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s just too

24 bad.

25 Fuck that.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but you can’t — I

2 mean, you know June.

3 MR. CHANDLER: I can’t make excuses for

4 June.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: There’s no way to

6 make — there’s nothing to make an excuse. I mean,

7 we all have our good points and our bad points, and

8 we all have things that —

9 MR. CHANDLER: I think, you know, her

10 bad points [tape irregularity] gone too far. I

11 really do.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: I think you gotta look

13 at the overall picture. I mean, now we’re

14 talking —

15 MR. CHANDLER: I am looking at — I’m

16 looking at Jordy’s picture. That’s the only

17 picture I’m looking at. I — June’s not part of

18 it.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: But do you think that —

20 MR. CHANDLER: I know that after

21 tomorrow — in fact, not even after tomorrow. It’s

22 already happened. I don’t ever want anything to do

23 with June anymore because June is not part of my

24 family. In my mind, she’s died. I don’t ever want

25 to talk to her again. [tape irregularity] sitting



1 on the stand being totally humiliated or at the end

2 of a shotgun. That’s the only way I want to see

3 June now. She’s gotta [tape irregularity] do this

4 to kid. Again, it’s not right. Can do it to me.

5 Can’t do it to my kid. It’s not right.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think

7 that whatever’s happening, if you think it’s bad

8 for him, she’s done, you know, out of malice?

9 MR. CHANDLER: You want to know

10 something? You don’t even have to ask me. You

11 could — as you said before, you want to sit down

12 and talk to the people I spoke to —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: — you’re going to have

15 a chance to do that if you want to. You go and ask

16 the experts —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — and you won’t have to

19 ask. They will be there anyway.

20 There’s not one person in this world

21 [tape irregularity] can’t find a person —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — disagree with me.

24 I’m the one that disagreed with — I

25 didn’t even want to know about it.




2 MR. CHANDLER: I kept saying, “No, this

3 is okay. There’s nothing wrong. This is great.”

4 It took experts to convince me [tape

5 irregularity] that by not taking action —


7 MR. CHANDLER: — my son was going to

8 be irreparably damaged for the rest of his life

9 [tape irregularity]. That was what I heard.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because his friend is

11 older, or because of all the seduction?

12 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, age in

13 and of itself is not a harmful thing.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: But it could have been

16 used to advantage, and in some ways Michael is

17 using his age and experience and his money and his

18 power to great advantage to Jordy. The problem is

19 he’s also harming him, greatly harming him, for his

20 own selfish reasons. He’s not the altruistic, kind

21 human being that he appears to be.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think —

23 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

24 inaudible) selfish motives here.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean, harming Jordy



1 because it’s taken him out of reality?

2 MR. CHANDLER: It’s not so much really

3 what he’s taken him out of. It’s what he’s brought

4 him into.


6 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I don’t mean to

7 be devious. I just can’t be —

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: You can’t tell me.

9 MR. CHANDLER: — specific about it,

10 but I tell you that, again, it all comes down to

11 one thing. They don’t want to talk to me.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

13 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy — yeah, he’s 13

14 years old. He’s only [tape irregularity], hoping

15 that the problem will go away by itself, but June’s

16 old enough to know better.

17 June’s the one that’s frustrated me.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, this is

19 the deal: I talked to Jordy about it today, about,

20 you know, his not contacting you and not calling

21 you on Father’s Day and not sending you anything.

22 He’s confused June — and this is the truth and

23 from him. June did everything to get him to send

24 you a card, to call and everything. He’s just

25 frustrated, you know, and I don’t know about what



1 or — you know, it’s just like he’s scared or

2 doesn’t know what to do or —

3 MR. CHANDLER: (Inaudible).

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?

5 MR. CHANDLER: June didn’t do a thing

6 to have him call me or send me a card by her own

7 admission to me last time. She didn’t give a shit,

8 is what she told me.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but I don’t

10 believe that because, I mean —

11 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

12 inaudible) told me.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because, I mean —


15 MR. SCHWARTZ: With June and — I

16 talked to them today.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, she’s lying

18 to you, Dave.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, but would Jordy

20 lie?

21 MR. CHANDLER: Now they’re scared shit.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. Would Jordy — no,

23 because they don’t know anything about it. I

24 didn’t even tell them that I had talked to you this

25 morning, okay?



1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

2 inaudible) them know you heard the message.


4 MR. CHANDLER: And what are you going

5 there all of a sudden? You haven’t been there —

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Last night’s the first

7 night I’ve been there.

8 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. By accident?

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, it’s Kelly’s

10 birthday. I mean, you know, I got — it’s tough

11 for me too. It’s not easy. I mean, you don’t

12 really know what’s going on with me, but, I mean,

13 it’s very, very, very difficult times for me.

14 MR. CHANDLER: So what?

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Very.

16 MR. CHANDLER: So what you’re saying is

17 that because of your problem you sacrifice the

18 kids.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I did it —

20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

21 inaudible) money all during —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I just — I

23 fucked up, but —

24 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, you fucked up.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but —



1 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

2 inaudible) I’m not fucking up —

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: — when you’re trying to

4 survive —

5 MR. CHANDLER: Hey, Dave, it doesn’t

6 matter. You want to know something? When my

7 father was dying of cancer —


9 MR. CHANDLER: — and he had — and he

10 got in a car crash that crushed his leg and his

11 spinal cord —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

13 MR. CHANDLER: — at the same time and

14 he was in incredible pain —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — I used to talk to him

17 about it —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: — and he would say,

20 “You know what?”

21 I’d say, “Why don’t you — you never

22 talk — you never talk about it, you never complain

23 to anybody.”

24 He said, “You know what? Because

25 everybody’s got their own problems, and nobody’s



1 gonna think that my problem’s any worse than their

2 problem.”


4 MR. CHANDLER: And so as bad as your

5 problem is [tape irregularity] it may not be on the

6 same scale, but emotionally, financially,

7 psychologically, it’s devastating me as much as

8 [tape irregularity].

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: And I accept that.

10 MR. CHANDLER: Okay.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I — let me —

12 MR. CHANDLER: I’m telling you this:

13 That as bad as my life is, I’m willing to let it

14 get a lot worse —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — and sacrifice

17 whatever it is — and I don’t even consider it a

18 sacrifice — give up whatever it is so that my son

19 won’t be damaged.

20 You’re not willing to do that. You

21 fall apart just to save one of your kids [tape

22 irregularity] away from my practice, from my

23 family, from my wife, from Cody, from everybody

24 else, do whatever I have to do —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think that’ll



1 save Jordy? I mean, don’t you think there’s a

2 happy medium?

3 MR. CHANDLER: No. We’re not gonna

4 save him. June’s not gonna save him. Who’s gonna

5 save him? Gotta be me.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you really

7 think he has —

8 MR. CHANDLER: — one.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: You don’t think it’s

10 just gonna run its course?

11 MR. CHANDLER: Dave . . .

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, you know more

13 than I know, so I’m at a disadvantage.

14 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then, I will tell

15 you without question. It’s gone way too far.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: Jordy is never going to

18 be the same person he was.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: It’s never — by the

21 time it runs its course —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — if it does, he will

24 be so damaged he’ll never recover —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: — and that’s not my

2 opinion. I mean, I happen to be believe it now

3 because my eyes have been opened —


5 MR. CHANDLER: — but I’m not the one

6 that first [tape irregularity], so what I’m saying

7 to you is that I’m acting because [tape

8 irregularity] I’m going to cause him great harm,

9 and you tell me if maybe it’s gonna cause him harm

10 right now. I think he’ll be harmed much greater if

11 I do nothing, and besides now I’m convinced that if

12 I do nothing I’m going to be, from doing nothing,

13 causing him harm, and I couldn’t —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did you discuss that

15 with Monique?

16 MR. CHANDLER: Not really.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I don’t want her

19 involved. I mean, she would just like the whole

20 thing to go away.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: But we’ve had a nice

23 little relationship and a great new marriage and a

24 nice little family —

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: — and everything’s

2 terrific over here.


4 MR. CHANDLER: And, you know, I’ve

5 tried to explain to Cody why his brother doesn’t

6 call him and he doesn’t come over here. You know

7 [tape irregularity] whole world, and I’m not

8 exaggerating.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: (Inaudible) Jordy.

10 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. You ask Monique

11 when you speak to her if he doesn’t bring it up

12 every conversation —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: — (simultaneous,

15 inaudible) out during the day.

16 Cody spent about two weeks crying his

17 eyes out. He’d have nightmares about Jordy. He’d

18 get up in the middle of the night and come crying

19 into our bed.

20 I’d listen to him talk, and I would

21 break down —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — and I couldn’t

24 even — I mean, I couldn’t even — I couldn’t — I

25 didn’t know what to say to him, you know? What can



1 you say?


3 MR. CHANDLER: It was the saddest thing

4 I [tape irregularity]. I mean, how do you do that?

5 13 years old. There’s no — you know, and a [tape

6 irregularity] just come into it?

7 I ask you this: If Michael Jackson

8 were just some 34-year-old person, would this be

9 happening? No. He’s got power, he’s got money,

10 he’s got seduction. [tape irregularity] happening

11 [tape irregularity] they’ve been seduced away from

12 the family by power and by money.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: And by this guy’s image.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: He could be the same

17 person without the power and the money, and they

18 wouldn’t even be talking to him. You know it and I

19 know it. So for power and money and his image,

20 June and Jordy have broken up the family, and even

21 though [tape irregularity] a lot better, because

22 I’ve sat down and talked to him, and I’ve told him

23 long before it came down to going this far —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: — that Cody was really



1 hysterical about him.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: And what does he say?

3 MR. CHANDLER: He said that he would,

4 you know, he would call him and he’d talk to him

5 and stuff, and he tried, you know.


7 MR. CHANDLER: As time went on, the

8 times between when he did call or see Cody got

9 longer and longer and longer and longer until [tape

10 irregularity] anymore.

11 And you know what? He would do the

12 same thing to Kelly. Kelly just happens to have to

13 come along because June has to happen to come

14 along —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — but if [tape

17 irregularity] now, June wouldn’t be in the picture

18 and neither would Kelly, any more than I am.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: They would have dumped

21 her a long time ago. They even told me [tape

22 irregularity]. They can’t stand her.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. Jordy can’t stand

24 June?

25 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Neither one of



1 them like her. They don’t like anybody but each

2 other.


4 MR. CHANDLER: They don’t like you, and

5 they don’t like me and they don’t like her. They

6 don’t want anybody coming between them. [tape

7 irregularity] got to be eliminated.

8 You go ahead and you see — you tell

9 June. You tell June to start saying “No” to

10 everything they want —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — and see what happens.

13 The only reason she’s there is because

14 she says “Yes” [tape irregularity] favorite as long

15 as I was saying “Yes.”

16 Trust me. I don’t know what’s happened

17 to Jordy except he doesn’t care, literally does not

18 care, if he would ever see him again. He hopes I

19 would go away and not bother him. That’s [tape

20 irregularity].

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I know that’s not

22 true.

23 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

24 inaudible) Michael.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: I know that’s not true.



1 MR. CHANDLER: I’m telling you. But

2 that doesn’t matter, you know. I’m not taking it

3 personally. I’m just trying to do what I have been

4 led to believe is the right action to take so that

5 he’s not harmed.

6 I mean, Unfortunately, June and [tape

7 irregularity] because in order to protect Jordy

8 certain things are gonna have to come out, and

9 those two are not going to have any defense against

10 it whatsoever. They’re just going to be [tape

11 irregularity] violently destroyed.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that it

13 helps Jordy?

14 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah, it’ll help Jordy

15 because he won’t — he’ll never see Michael again.

16 That’s —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think

18 that —

19 MR. CHANDLER: And he’s probably never

20 gonna see June again if I have to go through with

21 this.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think —

23 MR. CHANDLER: Unless I’d let him.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Do you think that would

25 affect him?




2 MR. SCHWARTZ: That he was — that this

3 was done by force?

4 MR. CHANDLER: You mean that Michael

5 did this to him?

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, that you, like, are

7 forcing him not to see someone or take him away

8 from his mom?

9 MR. CHANDLER: Well, I am gonna force

10 him not to see —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but do you think

12 that’s the right way to do it?

13 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. I’ve been led to

14 believe that it’s the right thing to do.

15 In fact, it’s the right thing to do

16 because how do you know? You don’t know what —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t have a clue.

18 MR. CHANDLER: Suppose you were to find

19 out what they’re doing and you were to agree with

20 me that these things that they’re doing are harmful

21 to Jordy or —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’d like to know.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — be harmful.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, in my wildest

25 imagination I can’t figure out what it is.



1 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. But suppose —

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Unless it’s sex, and I

3 don’t know, you know.

4 MR. CHANDLER: Suppose that you were to

5 find out that there were things going on that you

6 believed were harmful to him? Would you say to me,

7 “Hey, look. You know, I got things to do here

8 [tape irregularity], but, you know, time will go by

9 and everything will be okay”? I mean, that’s —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: No. What I would

11 do — I’m not disagreeing with you.

12 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, they won’t

13 talk to me about those things. They won’t talk to

14 me about anything.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Even about what you

16 think they’re doing or about what you know they’re

17 doing?

18 MR. CHANDLER: What I know they’re

19 doing.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I’ve tried to

22 talk to Jordy. Jordy — Jordy does not talk to me.

23 This stopped long before I told him he couldn’t

24 [tape irregularity]. He just does not talk to me

25 anymore. In fact, when he talks to Michael on the



1 telephone, he goes in another room because I’m not

2 allowed to hear what they’re talking about except I

3 taped [tape irregularity] they’re talking about.

4 Ha ha ha.

5 Anyway, all I’m saying is that [tape

6 irregularity] that I would be negligent to continue

7 to do nothing [tape irregularity] gonna be because

8 nobody really knows how Jordy will be affected one

9 way or the other.

10 I know for a fact that he’s going to be

11 affected adversely if I do nothing.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

13 MR. CHANDLER: So I have nothing to

14 lose.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Would you do me a big

16 favor?

17 MR. CHANDLER: What?

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Could you and I go to

19 one of these shrinks and talk it over?


21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why not?

22 MR. CHANDLER: Because it’s too late,

23 after 8:30 tomorrow.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: But why not? Why

25 couldn’t we go talk it over —



1 MR. CHANDLER: Because the thing’s

2 already — the thing has already been set in

3 motion.


5 MR. CHANDLER: It’s happening at 8:30.

6 8:36 tomorrow —


8 MR. CHANDLER: — it’s out of my hands.

9 I do nothing else again —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: — after 8:36 tomorrow.

12 It’s all been automatically set in

13 motion.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not even in contact

16 anymore —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: — with this person.

19 This thing is —

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me ask you this,

21 then.

22 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

23 inaudible) 8:36, unless I call in —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: — and tell him not to



1 do it.

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: So why don’t you call

3 and say not to do it?

4 MR. CHANDLER: Because I’m not going

5 to.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why? Why wouldn’t you

7 go with me? I mean, we trust each other. We

8 respect each other. Why couldn’t you go with me

9 and we’d decide together?

10 MR. CHANDLER: Because I don’t want to

11 talk to you about it.


13 MR. CHANDLER: I want to talk to June

14 and Jordy and Michael —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but why can’t you

16 talk to me? I mean, I’m — I could be very —

17 MR. CHANDLER: — be there tomorrow

18 and —

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pardon me?

20 MR. CHANDLER: You can be there at the

21 meeting tomorrow, and you can get a chance to talk

22 to him —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: — if you want to, but

25 if they don’t say, “Well, there’s not going to be a



1 meeting” —


3 MR. CHANDLER: — I want to talk to

4 them. I don’t want to talk to you.


6 MR. CHANDLER: Because you have had

7 your head buried in Rent A Wreck, and you have no

8 idea what’s going on —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — and just because you

11 all of a sudden decide to have some interest in

12 [tape irregularity] I don’t [tape irregularity]

13 going on. It will take you weeks to catch up —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — you’ll never know

16 what’s going on by explanation.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

18 MR. CHANDLER: You’d have to have lived

19 it. You’d have to have witnessed it. Myself would

20 never have believed it —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — if I didn’t live

23 through it, see it and hear it.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: I would not have



1 believed it. And that’s all. I cannot take this

2 [tape irregularity] over to you because that’s the

3 only way you’re gonna know it.


5 MR. CHANDLER: The evidence is already

6 locked up in a safe place —


8 MR. CHANDLER: — and it’s gonna come

9 out only [tape irregularity] let it come out, and

10 that’s it. If they don’t talk to me tomorrow, out

11 it comes.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Well, but let me

13 ask you this- –

14 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

15 inaudible) Michael Jackson — Michael Jackson’s

16 career, Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated

17 beyond belief. You’ll not believe it. He will not

18 believe what’s going to happen to him.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Beyond his worst

21 nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more

22 record.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: That’s for sure. And I

25 mean I’m [tape irregularity] it just has to happen



1 in order to get — to keep [tape irregularity] and

2 it doesn’t have to happen if they show up tomorrow.


4 MR. CHANDLER: But if they don’t show

5 up — and I’ve made it very clear — I’ve tried to

6 make it really clear on that answering machine,

7 “This is the last chance to talk. If you talk, we

8 have a chance. If we don’t talk, it’s all over.”

9 It’s out of my hands. I mean, what

10 else can I do?

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don’t — you know, I

12 don’t —

13 MR. CHANDLER: What’s the disadvantage

14 to you if Michael Jackson’s destroyed and out of

15 the family? What good is he doing you?

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: What harms it — well,

17 it has nothing to — I’m only thinking of Jordy.

18 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

19 inaudible) come over to talk to you, you seemed

20 pretty damned upset that everybody was telling you

21 that Michael Jackson has taken your family away

22 from you. You even went so far as to tell me you

23 couldn’t get bank loans because of that [tape

24 irregularity] turn around completely 180 degrees.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: It’s not turning around



1 180.

2 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

3 inaudible) for Michael Jackson.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll tell you what I’m

5 concerned about.


7 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’m concerned about

8 Jordy.

9 MR. CHANDLER: Well, if you were

10 concerned about Jordy, you should have been around

11 a long time ago, because I have been.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

13 MR. CHANDLER: Where have you been?

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I’ve been there

15 plenty for him. I mean, in the 13 years I’ve been

16 there a lot.

17 MR. CHANDLER: I agree —

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would say —

19 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

20 inaudible) day —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would say this: So I

22 made a few mistakes, but —

23 MR. CHANDLER: Why —

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: I can’t condemn myself

25 for it.



1 MR. CHANDLER: Well, why all of a

2 sudden do you not want to be there?

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Did I not want to be

4 there?


6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I’ve been in a

7 survival mode.

8 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, okay.

9 MR. SCHWARTZ: And, you know —

10 MR. CHANDLER: The fact of the matter

11 is —

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: You know, you do what

13 you have to do, and sometimes you make the wrong

14 move, and sometimes your emotions make you do it,

15 and sometimes it’s just — it’s the way that you

16 face it. Sometimes you —

17 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

18 inaudible) survival mode, and so you’re doing what

19 you’re doing, and I’m not in a survival mode. I’m

20 trying for him to survive —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, what I —

22 MR. CHANDLER: — doing what I think —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: I’ll tell you what. I

24 would die for that kid. I mean, I have — you

25 don’t know what I’ve done for that kid.



1 MR. CHANDLER: Easy to say that, Dave,

2 but when you tell me you’re in a survival mode so

3 you can’t pay attention to your children, it

4 doesn’t jive with “I would die for that kid.”

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Wait. I’m ashamed of

6 that. I’m not proud of that, but when you —

7 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, how do you — I

8 mean, which of those two statements should I choose

9 to believe, because they’re both entirely opposite

10 each other?

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well —

12 MR. CHANDLER: “I would die for that

13 kid” or “I’m” —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: If I had —

15 MR. CHANDLER: — “in a survival mode

16 and I” —

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would do anything for

18 Jordy. I would lose everything. I would die for

19 Jordy. That’s the bottom line.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Then why don’t you just

21 back me up right now and let’s get rid of Michael

22 Jackson.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because I don’t know the

24 facts.

25 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. Well, when you



1 know —

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, I don’t —

3 MR. CHANDLER: Okay. When you know the

4 facts, when you see the facts come out, then you’ll

5 make a decision at that point.

6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right. That’s fair.


8 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, that’s more than

9 fair, but this — let me —

10 MR. CHANDLER: It’s unfortunately gonna

11 be too late, then, and nothing’s gonna matter at

12 that point.


14 MR. CHANDLER: Because the fact is so

15 fucking overwhelming —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah?

17 MR. CHANDLER: — that everybody’s

18 going to be destroyed in the process.

19 The facts themselves are gonna — once

20 this thing starts rolling —

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: — the facts themselves

23 are gonna overwhelm. It’s gonna be bigger than all

24 of us put together, and the whole thing’s just

25 gonna crash down on everybody and destroy everybody



1 in its sight. That’s [tape irregularity]

2 humiliating, believe me.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. And is that good?

4 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. It’s great.


6 MR. CHANDLER: Great, because —

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, is that how

8 you’re —

9 MR. CHANDLER: Because June and Jordy

10 and Michael —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — have forced me to

13 take it to the extreme —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — to get their

16 attention. How pitiful, pitifuckingful they are to

17 have done that. I’ve tried to get their

18 attention —

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: — I’ve cried on the

21 phone, I’ve talked on the phone —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: — I have begged on the

24 phone, and all I get back is, “Go fuck yourself” on

25 the phone, and so now I’m still trying to get their



1 attention until 8:30 tomorrow for their [tape

2 irregularity], and I will know that even having

3 gone this far they won’t talk to me, then I know

4 that I’m absolutely right in doing what I’m doing

5 because they have left me no other [tape

6 irregularity]. I am not allowed to talk to [tape

7 irregularity], and so since they’re sending me that

8 message and telling me that —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — they leave me no

11 choice. They will not let me say to them, “This is

12 what’s bothering me, and this is what I’d like to

13 do about it. What do you think?”

14 They’re saying, “We don’t care what you

15 have to think — say about [tape irregularity].”

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: You mean by no

17 communication?

18 MR. CHANDLER: Am I supposed to just

19 bury my head? No. Not when my kid’s involved.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: I can’t. So it’s their

22 fault. Everything’s their fault, one hundred

23 percent, and the reason it’s their fault [tape

24 irregularity] try to communicate, and they have

25 time after time frustrated my attempts to talk by



1 telling me, “Go fuck yourself.”

2 And when you do that to somebody,

3 consistently, you drive them to do something [tape

4 irregularity]. I’m not an evil person. I don’t

5 want to do this.


7 MR. CHANDLER: It’s their fault because

8 they won’t talk. They have one more chance. I’ve

9 told them this. That’s why I left that message.

10 The message was very harsh [tape irregularity] and

11 it was very true, and it was to let them know that

12 I am not kidding around.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: I’m begging them. That

15 message was begging, one more time —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: — to sit down and talk

18 and saying basically, “I don’t want to hurt you,

19 but you’re not leaving me any choice.”

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: And, you know, if they

22 choose to ignore it, for whatever their

23 motives — June doesn’t ignore things for the

24 same — she doesn’t bury her head in the sand and

25 make believe it’s gonna go away.




2 MR. CHANDLER: June usually will call

3 you up and say, “Go fuck yourself and drop dead” —


5 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’ll get

6 violent and all that, maybe even punch you in the

7 face.

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, that’s not so bad.

9 MR. CHANDLER: That’s right, and yet

10 she’s not calling me —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — she’s not doing

13 anything. She’s not talking either. So Michael’s

14 not talking either. The three of them, completely

15 different personalities —

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

17 MR. CHANDLER: — handle situations in

18 three completely different ways, and yet none of

19 the three of them is calling me.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: You can tell me that

22 Jordy’s burying his head in the sand and that’s his

23 reaction [tape irregularity]. What’s the other two

24 excuses? I don’t know. They won’t even tell me

25 what their excuse for not talking to me is. I



1 don’t even — I can’t make an excuse for —

2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael, I can’t tell

3 you. June, she doesn’t know what’s going on.

4 MR. CHANDLER: Well, of course she

5 doesn’t know what’s going on. She wouldn’t let me

6 tell her.

7 MR. SCHWARTZ: But she doesn’t going

8 on — know what’s going on —

9 MR. CHANDLER: I did tell her once.

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: I did tell her once what

12 my thoughts were about it.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

14 MR. CHANDLER: And she said, “Go fuck

15 yourself,” basically.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Does this —

17 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

18 inaudible) she said — I do remember ’cause I wrote

19 it on a piece of paper.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: It shocked me so much

22 coming from her mouth that I actually wrote it

23 down, verbatim, in quotes.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: That this human being



1 would say something like that about her own kid,

2 and so now that I know that she feels that way

3 about [tape irregularity] no reason why I should

4 assume that she gives a shit about me, so —

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know she cares

6 about you.

7 MR. CHANDLER: Well, you know, that

8 doesn’t matter anymore. June is nonexistent.

9 If — I have no — I have nothing for her anymore.

10 I will never talk to her again, ever. Never.

11 She’s a horrible human being, and it’s all gonna

12 come out, and I don’t even have to say that [tape

13 irregularity]. I’ll let everybody make their own

14 decision.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: June is a horrible,

17 selfish human being. [tape irregularity], and now

18 I find this out about how [tape

19 irregularity] — it’s all over. And if they’re

20 stupid enough not to talk to me tomorrow, well,

21 they’re going to have —

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I think they want

23 to talk to you, and I want to talk to you.

24 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then they

25 should —



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: But when it comes with a

2 threat, I mean, that’s what’s upsetting to me.

3 MR. CHANDLER: Well, that’s too bad.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, why?

5 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

6 inaudible) supposed to do to get someone’s

7 attention? I say, “I am begging you to talk to

8 me.”


10 MR. CHANDLER: That doesn’t work. So

11 then you cry hysterically on the phone, “I’m in so

12 much pain because I’m losing” —

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Who did you say

14 that — who was that to?

15 MR. CHANDLER: To June.

16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, and how long ago

17 was that?

18 MR. CHANDLER: Oh, three weeks, maybe.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: And then you call up and

21 you say, “I demand to talk to him.”

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: None of that works.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,



1 inaudible) get the same response. I mean, no

2 emotion from the other side whatsoever.

3 MR. SCHWARTZ: Uh-huh.

4 MR. CHANDLER: Nothing.


6 MR. CHANDLER: Except the coldest

7 response you can possibly imagine, okay?


9 MR. CHANDLER: And maybe it’s because

10 she’s insecure. I don’t care anymore —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: I cared at the time. I

13 mean, I was totally shocked that she would respond

14 that way to me. I couldn’t believe it. Okay? So

15 I know that I have tried in every way. I’ve

16 appealed to her in every way I know how. I’ve

17 appealed to her intelligence, I’ve appealed to her

18 emotions, and so I’ve done every — I’ve gotten on

19 the ground and I’ve groveled in front of her. I’ve

20 gone so far as to tell her that her son is in

21 danger.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: None of it made a

24 difference, none of it, and so what else am I

25 supposed to do to get their attention?




2 MR. CHANDLER: If I didn’t care, Dave,

3 I wouldn’t have left that message.

4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.

5 MR. CHANDLER: I just would have gone

6 and done whatever I wanted to do —


8 MR. CHANDLER: — and they’d have

9 gotten the shock of their life —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: — that all of a sudden

12 would have appeared out of nowhere, and then their

13 whole lives would be forever different and forever

14 bad.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: I have nothing to gain

17 by talking to them tomorrow. All that can happen

18 tomorrow is that I’m gonna look at their faces and

19 I’m gonna feel bad —

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

21 MR. CHANDLER: — and I’m gonna

22 mitigate my position. I’m gonna give in somewhat

23 [tape irregularity] I just went ahead and did what

24 I was gonna do, I don’t ever have to see them

25 again —




2 MR. CHANDLER: — they’re automatically

3 gonna be destroyed and I’m gonna get what I want.

4 That’s a given [tape irregularity], so —

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: But, I mean, is that the

6 way to get Jordy?

7 MR. CHANDLER: — talk to them — I’m

8 talking to them for their sake —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — mine. This is my

11 fourth, fifth and last attempt to communicate.

12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

13 MR. CHANDLER: So when I leave a

14 threatening message, I am threatening them —

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: — because nothing else

17 works. Crying didn’t work. Begging didn’t work.

18 Intelligence didn’t work.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: Appealing to the

21 motherly [tape irregularity] nothing worked. So

22 what else is left? You threaten. If that doesn’t

23 work, you’ve basically tried everything there is

24 that you could possibly try.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.



1 MR. CHANDLER: I didn’t threaten him

2 physically. I didn’t say I was going to kill them.

3 Michael can show up with all his bodyguards with

4 guns and surround me if he wants to.


6 MR. CHANDLER: I’m not killing anybody

7 tomorrow. It’s not the next step. His death is

8 not the next (inaudible), so I mean I will talk to

9 them tomorrow, but that’s for their — they can’t

10 possibly feel threatened.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: That’s bullshit. I

13 didn’t threaten them physically in any way, and

14 certainly Michael’s got enough [tape irregularity]

15 lawyers (inaudible). He has Burt Fields, who’s a

16 big hotshot, if he wants to, sit right there. I

17 don’t give a shit.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

19 MR. CHANDLER: Whatever, you know, is

20 going to make them protected from my great threat.

21 I’m showing up all by my little self, and they can

22 show up with an entire army if they need to protect

23 themselves from me, but there’s nothing that they

24 can do to convince me that they’re not showing up

25 because they’re afraid for their lives.




2 MR. CHANDLER: They could show up [tape

3 irregularity] surrounded by bodyguards. He could

4 certainly have them come over to June’s house, so

5 [tape irregularity] threat was obviously the last

6 (inaudible).

7 I’ve never punched anybody. I’ve never

8 shot anybody. I’ve never done anything violent in

9 my life. There’s no reason why they should feel

10 physically threatened. Never ever given them any

11 indication that I [tape irregularity] Jordy, so,

12 you know, they know that that threat’s [tape

13 irregularity] to be fearful of that. They know

14 that that [tape irregularity] and they know that I

15 left it because there’s no other way to get ahold

16 of them.

17 MR. SCHWARTZ: That’s fair.

18 MR. CHANDLER: I mean, I think it’s

19 fair.

20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah. Let me ask you

21 this question. I mean, I definitely want to be

22 there.

23 MR. CHANDLER: That’s fine.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Can we do it at night?

25 MR. CHANDLER: No. Has to be —



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: Why not? Why does it

2 have to be in the morning?

3 MR. CHANDLER: Because it’s too late at

4 night.

5 MR. SCHWARTZ: It doesn’t have to be

6 late —

7 MR. CHANDLER: I have to have the

8 regular business hours. I need as many business

9 hours —

10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

11 MR. CHANDLER: — if it doesn’t go my

12 way to get the wheels going.

13 MR. SCHWARTZ: But what time are you

14 ready to — what time are you through work

15 tomorrow —

16 MR. CHANDLER: The wheels roll at 8:36

17 if they’re not there.

18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but can you do

19 that for me, make it later?

20 MR. CHANDLER: (Simultaneous,

21 inaudible) do it. I can’t. You don’t have to be

22 there.

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I want to —

24 MR. CHANDLER: — tape record it. You

25 can hear it all.



1 MR. SCHWARTZ: But I want to be there.

2 MR. CHANDLER: Well, then you have to

3 be there at 8:30. It’s already set.


5 MR. CHANDLER: There are other people

6 involved that are waiting for my phone call that

7 are intentionally going to be in certain

8 positions —


10 MR. CHANDLER: — [tape irregularity].

11 I paid them to do it. They’re doing their job. I

12 gotta just go ahead and follow through on the time

13 zone.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Um-hmm.

15 MR. CHANDLER: I mean the time set out.

16 Everything is going according to a certain plan

17 that isn’t just mine. There’s other people

18 involved —

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: How about 8:37?

20 MR. CHANDLER: Nope. 8:31 is not even

21 going to work.

22 I mean, they’re going to

23 have — they’re going to have to be there or not be

24 there. It’s up to them what happens now. I mean,

25 it’s not going to be [tape irregularity] whether



1 they’re there or not.


3 MR. CHANDLER: But if they are there,

4 it’s going to be far better than if they’re

5 not — I mean, they’re going to have a chance to

6 make things a lot better if they’re there.

7 My instructions were to kill and

8 destroy [tape irregularity], I’m telling you. I

9 mean, and by killing and destroying, I’m going to

10 torture them, Dave.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: Because that’s what June

13 has done to me. She has tortured me —

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’s gonna know

16 that you can’t [tape irregularity].

17 I’ll tell you one thing that Jordy has

18 no idea about, and that’s what love means. He

19 doesn’t even have the remotest idea. He can’t

20 learn it from June. She doesn’t know what it

21 means. She has no conception of what it means.

22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

23 MR. CHANDLER: So maybe, you know, I

24 can get (inaudible) teach him that. I don’t know.

25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah [tape



1 irregularity].

2 MR. CHANDLER: Part of it [tape

3 irregularity] other people and communicating, and

4 those are three things that must be in place in

5 order for a loving relationship to exist, because

6 all of those things show that you care about that

7 other person. Not one thing [tape irregularity].

8 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but it was there.

9 MR. CHANDLER: No, I don’t think it

10 ever was, now that I —

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: — look at her behavior,

13 I’m just saying that June is a brilliant and

14 pathologic personality.

15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

16 MR. CHANDLER: What you see on the

17 surface ain’t even remotely related to what’s

18 really going on underneath.

19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

20 MR. CHANDLER: And I believe that that

21 will come out in lie detector [tape irregularity]

22 psychological evaluations —

23 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

24 MR. CHANDLER: — which they’re all

25 gonna have to do.





3 MR. SCHWARTZ: And you think that’s

4 good for Jordy?

5 MR. CHANDLER: I think that in the long

6 run would — of course it’s not the best thing for

7 Jordy.


9 MR. CHANDLER: The best thing for Jordy

10 would be for everybody to sit there and peaceably

11 resolve amongst themselves [tape irregularity], but

12 because they’re not willing to do that, I’m not

13 allowed to have a say in what the best [tape

14 irregularity]. I’m not even allowed to [tape

15 irregularity] Jordy is. I’m not allowed to have a

16 say in anything about Jordy. So when you ask me

17 that question [tape irregularity] I would welcome

18 them to do that, but they don’t care. They don’t

19 care about what I think, so they don’t ask me that

20 question. Do I think — I mean, just to answer

21 your question, I think that [tape irregularity] for

22 Jordy either way in the short [tape irregularity],

23 in the short term.

24 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

25 MR. CHANDLER: I think in the long term



1 he’s got a [tape irregularity] a chance of being a

2 happy human being if I do what I have to do than if

3 I let things go the way they are.

4 Could a compromise be worked out?

5 Possibly.


7 MR. CHANDLER: Yeah. Let them convince

8 me as to why [tape irregularity] tell me I’m wrong.

9 Let them show me how Jordy’s benefitting and not

10 being harmed. They got their chance.

11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

12 MR. CHANDLER: If they don’t want it,

13 they haven’t wanted to take it before.

14 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

15 MR. CHANDLER: They’ve had four or five

16 times that I’ve called them [tape irregularity]

17 haven’t wanted to get in a conversation with me

18 about it, and I believe they don’t want to get in a

19 conversation with me about it is because they know

20 they can’t defend their position.

21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

22 MR. CHANDLER: [tape irregularity] to

23 cut — I mean, I’m young, I’m really liberal. As

24 far as I’m concerned, anybody could do anything

25 they want. That’s my philosophy. You guys can do



1 whatever you want. Just be happy. Don’t get hurt.

2 So . . .

3 (End of Tape 1, Side B.)

  • Pingback: Redemption by Geraldine Hughes - MJ Facts()

  • Neely

    Hello all!
    I copied the following quote from above, so as to get opinions on what you feel Evan Chandler is referring to.

    MR. CHANDLER: — and I’ve never

    8 been — I’ve never been that set on pursuing it

    9 until now because I truly believe this will damage

    10 him for the rest of his life. And she will

    11 not — and I’ve told her that, and I’ve tried to

    12 talk to her about that —

    13 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.

    14 MR. CHANDLER: — and she’s not willing

    15 to talk to me about it.

    • Andreas

      Yes, June Chandler initially didn’t want to hear about Evan’s claims about Jordan. She, her husband David Schwartz and their lawyer, thought Evan was only after money. To me it seemed like June was extremely touchy about the molestation claim, and she didn’t want to hear it from Evan… so when Evan said for Jordan to tell her herself on the phone, June became quite hysterical, cried and didn’t want to listen to Jordan. She proclaimed Evan was coaching him to say those things. This situation alone was very devestating to Jordan’s relationship to his mother, and large part of the reason why he stopped seeing her permanently. Its understandable that when you’re trying to tell something that personal and emotional to your own mother, and she won’t even listen to you, its probably rough.

      June did change her mind not too much later however, after she calmly was explained by Dr Mathis Abrams and others, what Jordan had explaned to them, and she did admit it was impossible for Jordan to make all that up. She admitted she had been a bit hypnotized and enthralled by all the luxury, gifts, trips and so on by Jackson, and that she had been in deep denial. She had trusted Jordan to sleep in Michaels bedroom numerous times, so no wonder she didn’t want to believe it. June also insisted she had no idea what went on, but that she’s almost glad she didn’t, because if she knew she would have done whatever she could to get MJ alone with her, to then kill him.

      • Neely

        Thanks for your response Andreas. I am gathering from your comment that you believe Evan was referring to molestation in the clip that I copied? He didn’t use the word molestation, so I’m trying to figure out exactly what he was talking about when he says “it”, a couple of times.

        • Andreas

          Well, he does say stuff like, “I believe that Jordy’s already irreparably harmed.” + “[MJs] an evil guy. He’s worse than bad.” + “I have the evidence to prove it.” So most likely… And if you read/trust ATG, it corrobates.

          I don’t remember the timeline completely, so I don’t remember if Jordy had confessed to his father yet, but I think not. This was at a point when Evan was mostly very suspicious for several reasons, and tried to get Jordy away from Jackson.

          If my memory isn’t failing me I think what Evan knew at that point that Michael was sleeping in bed with Jackson every night, and didn’t really know what to think of it, but was very worried Jordan was being molested. I also think the little brother of Evan who had hanged around with Jackson and Jordy alone, had out of the blue asked if two males could marry. Plus the infamously curious comment by his wife Monique that Jordan and Michael “can’t you see they are in love”, and June had once said in response “What if he’s gay, so what?”. There was other stuff too, like attitude changes in Jordy, so Evan was very confused, but rightly suspicous.

          One of his clients, as Evan was a dentist, was Carrie Fisher(mostly known for playing Leia in Star Wars), and she had contacts to people who knew Jackson, so I think she became a middle person, and I think he came into contact with someone there who said he should take action and get Jordy away from Jackson, and that it could harm Jordy for life.

          There was also this thing in the air about June Chandler having the custody of Jordy, and she wanted to allow Jordy to go on the upcoming Dangerous tour with Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson had requested that Jordy was going to be with him for a whole year, through the whole tour, and had even organized private tutoring for him and so on. To pull him out of school(I think he had done that to James Safechuck on a prior tour). I think Evan desperately tried to stop all that. I think Evan’s story makes sense mostly, although his anger tantrums certainly can make him seem a bit unsympathetic at times.

          • Neely

            I don’t understand some things, and I am also not well read on this case. I read the above document a few days ago, so I’m loosely referring rather than quoting right now.

            I can’t figure out, if Evan Chandler had this proof, why would he be waiting to present it in a meeting with Michael, June, Jordy? He makes it seem like he’s planning to use it for leverage. He says at one point he will bring all three of them down, then the next point, he’s doing it all for Jordy, because he loves him so much. He says he has tried to talk to June without success, about what seems like Michael being a wedge between himself and Jordy. He says Michael is an evil person but, his reason following that is because essentially he broke up the union of June, Jordy, and himself. He never does say it’s due to molestation. If he has this proof, and is about to present it in the meeting, what the hell kind of father sits on it all this time? His concern for Jordy just got minimized by 10,000%.

            I have not read personally any legal documentation about Evan abusing Jordy physically, but of course I’m subject to rumors like everyone, about a restraining order against Evan issued by Jordy/June. That kind of flies in the face of his ONLY concern being to protect his son. If his words above are truthful, he is a colossal piece of shit. What the hell kind of parent gathers proof of molestation, and then sits on it to use as leverage at a later, more convenient time? If, like you say, he suspected for a time, but June wouldn’t hear of it, why didn’t he alert ANYONE else to his suspicions, so it might be halted? Isn’t that what a loving parent does? Good God this man is despicable. I kind of hold all these idiot parents at higher standards because, they birthed the child, and took on the responsibility of raising and protecting them into adulthood. I can SORT OF get the whole starstruck concept. When June testified in 2005 that MJ cried and begged her to let Jordy sleep in his bed….HELLO?? Red flags everywhere!! If she was telling the truth about that episode, she just stepped on her own dick in my opinion. Parents just toss their parental obligations out the window at the first sight of Michael Jackson? If they had suspicions and proof, but failed to act on that, they should be doing their own hard time as well.

          • Andreas

            I might be wrong, but I think the thing about Jordy reporting him for trying to hit him, was early in 2005. So I think it probably had a connection with the tenstion around the Arvizo case, and about Jordan being subpoened but refusing to testify. Jordan fled the country instead, didn’t want to have anything to do with MJ again, and I can imagine that caused some drama inside the family, and Evan getting pissed.

            Evan did have tendencies of getting aggressive. He attacked David Schwartz physically as well in 1993, I think twice actually, for different reasons. Besides that Evan and Jordan was actually very very close. I think Evan became kind of a hermit eventually, he got very ill too, had some rare jewish illness, and Jordan was the only person to ever visit him and take care of him, and who lived with him. Evan Chandler was a very ‘unique’ person though, thats for sure.

            As for the ‘proof’ at the point of the phone conversation, I don’t think he had any ‘hard proof’ of Jordan being molested. Suspicion would probably be more apt, circumstantial evidence at best, and seemingly a correct one at that… He did alert others of his suspicions though, but his main problem was that he didn’t get to Jordy, and they refused to meet him. He later got Jordy to visit psychiatrists and so on, and thats what blew the cause out in public. Are you implying he should have gone to the police with his initial suspicions? Not sure if I get what you’re aiming at. For the most time June had Jordan, and she suddenly used the custody right against Evan, and I think the discussion was about that.

            Why June, or any of the other mothers, let their son sleep in bed with Jackson is complicated too. Thats a big topic, and there might be articles here on MJfacts that goes into it. Most of the mosthers seemed reluctant at first, it seems to me, but Jackson somehow argued his way to let them do it. He had a very disarming and manipulative personality. If you’ve read June Chandler’s testimony I suppose thats her story. Jackson came crying at her door and asked why she didn’t trust him, and so on.

          • Neely

            Yes, I’m implying he should have gone to the police or any authority the moment he had suspicions and/or proof. I feel like no matter what the conditions were between June and Evan…custody issues, speaking terms or not, pure hatred, etc….it doesn’t matter. It’s a very poor excuse to say, “I couldn’t get to him”. If I suspected my child was being harmed, the barriers would all be immediately broken. I think that’s a rather natural response from an engaged parent. You? The variety of protective agencies and ways to report suspected abuse are plentiful. It seems like Jordan had this enormous whirlwind of adult interaction swirling around him….but nobody was truly in his court.

            Again, this is what I’ve gathered from this document, and June’s brief testimony in 2005, which I’d forgotten I read, and rumor, which I do try to actively discredit in my mind, albeit hard at times. I feel incensed FOR Jordan. All the while the adult situations are swirling, Jordan is slipping through the cracks it seems to me. Was anyone truly concerned about him? Including Michael? I don’t think so.

          • Andreas

            I understand your concerns, Neely. I don’t know, as I’m not sure if you really can go into a police station and say you have a hunch Michael Jackson, the biggest pop star in the world, is molesting your son, when you have little to build it on. I think stuff like that sounds easier than it is. It makes sense to me that Evan wanted to talk to Jordy first.

            What Evan did instead was trying to get Jordy out of June’s costody, so when he finally did get to have him a weekend, he managed to talk to Jordy after sedating him and pulling a tooth, and Jordy relucantly confessed to him what was happening, and yes, there really had been a sexual element between him and Jackson, something he had denied at least once before. The problematic part here was that Jordan made Evan promise to not tell anyone. That was kind of the deal of confessing it. He didn’t want Evan or anybody to hurt Michael. Evan promised he wouldn’t tell anyone.

            Now I’m really not sure what Evan really planned from there, if he truly was never going to tell anyone. I’m personally on the fence if he truly had plans of getting money from Jackson, as some other members here at Mjfacts thinks, but who knows. I suppose its possible. Evan didn’t have much time to think about it in any circumstance. What really happened was that Evan was legally obliged after the weekend to give Jordy back to June, and by proxy Michael Jackson, so he took Jordy to Dr. Mathis Abrams to get custody by law, by stating Jordy would be in danger at his mother.

            So Jordy had a one-to-one meeting with Dr Abrams and for the first time ever he talked about what had happened to him with Jackson(he hadn’t told any details to his father yet..), and Mathis Abrams said Jordy’s story was definitely believable. Everybody who ever talked to Jordy found his story believable.

            Now, for better or worse, Dr. Abrams was obliged by law to inform the police and the authorities, even if the Chandlers didn’t allow it, and thats how things first blew up.. and the public got to know there was a raid at Neverland, and the claims of child molestation leaked(I think Victor Gutierrez found out, and told Diane Dimond, and she reported it, but thats just my theory)… and so on.

            Oh yeah. I think it all was terrible for Jordan. He was described as being suicidal, and supposedly drew a painting of himself jumping from a building. The situation overall was horrible, but I think for everybody involved. I actually think the parents were really concerned about him. I think thats partly why it didn’t go to criminal court. Psychiatrists were warned he’d end up a vegetable. Its hard enough to go to court against your abuser, but this was x 1000000 because of who it was. It would be in front of the whole world. There was also a LOT of physical threats against the family. People shot gunshots at their house, left decapitated animals at the stairs, death threats on the phone constantly. Evan was hit with a bat at his office building. The police didn’t give them witness protection either if they would go to court, so when Michael Jackson threw in the towel and said he was willing to give them 20 million dollars, they accepted. Thats how I’ve gathered the story at least.

          • Pea

            Neely, your reaction to the conversation between Evan Chandler and Dave Schwartz was the same reaction I had while reading Ray Chandler’s “All That Glitters”. To be honest, I had to set it down because I was so disgusted that no one seemed to care about Jordie: not Jacko, not Jordie’s parents. June Chandler was a gold digger whose affections could be bought with trinkets and shopping sprees, and Evan was cynically using Jordie’s friendship with Jacko for his own benefit (whether financial or social). Of course, as you can see with the phone convo, Evan was apparently a little too observant for Jacko’s taste, which is why Jacko chose June to be the favored, “star” parent. That choice was what angered Evan, I suspect, because, as he says in the conversation, he was “liberal” and if Jordie was gay he’d be okay with it.

            A problem with that, though…. I’m sure you haven’t read Ray Chandler’s book yet, but he presents a “gay panic” situation, in which Evan seemed to fear that Michael Jackson would make his son “gay”.

            When you ask what “it” was that Evan was referring to, I believe “it” was what he suspected could be going on within his son’s friendship with an effeminate adult male. He didn’t know if it was molestation and he said he had no idea, but I believe he was simply anxious about the possibilities since he believed Michael was a homosexual. It was only the second day of meeting Jacko (and according to the timeline, Jacko had already started molesting Jordie, so maybe Evan could sense something between them) that Evan asked him, “Are you fucking my son up the ass?” Jacko giggled and said he didn’t “use that word” (fuck). Evan asked him two more times whether Jacko was gay (which Jacko denied). That probably didn’t make Michael happy since he was always disguising his interest in males!

            Anyway, in spite of those suspicions about Jacko’s sexuality, I don’t know if he knew it was molestation, and because he wasn’t sure, there would be no reason for him to go to the police. I think he just wanted to make sure that someone was around to intervene if Jordie’s friendship with a man he perceived as gay became inappropriately close — because June Chandler wasn’t going to stop anything.

            A lot of Jacko’s fans believe that phone convo was Evan’s manifesto, so to speak — the precursor to the whole scandal and his plan to abuse Jacko. I disagree: while Evan comes off as erratic (he was bipolar) in some parts, I think he was genuine in his worries. It’s just that you do wonder if he had been “chosen” would he have cared. I suspect he wouldn’t have. He would’ve been another parental pimp….

          • silverspirit

            Friday funny! Ron Newton being offered 200k to say “MJ touched his kids”. What a crock! Why didn’t this fool say something yrs ago?


            Of course floons think this is proof Jacko was “set up”.

          • Neely

            Thanks for your responses. I can surely make things cut and dry in my mind, but the very celebrity and spectacle of Michael Jackson complicates every single thing.

            However, I feel like as a parent, we are supposed to be the evolved, matured, experienced, level headed ones. With the idea in mind that Evan made a promise to Jordy not to tell, he has sacrificed his parental responsibility to protect his son!! By honoring that “promise”, he is condoning abuse by proxy. On the parental priority list, protection comes before hurt feelings, which can always be dealt with. Additionally, if it was sexual abuse that Jordy revealed, how could any parent live with themselves knowing this secret, and that it continues to occur, and “my daddy knows, but he’s agreed to allow it to continue”? Ummmmm…..huh?? I cannot resolve that in my mind. If these things are all true, it surely makes Evan look like one big POS in my eyes. He had the moral responsibility to protect his child. Maybe I would have difficulty in a unique situation such as this. I hope like hell my child would mean more to me than Michael Jackson. His aura seems to cause moral bankruptcy in many people.

            I have not read Ray’s book. I will one day, but, I haven’t read trial docs for a few weeks now, and I don’t want to mix too much in with those details. I want to complete that before moving too deeply into something else. I am curious about it though. It’s like 3 people removed from the actual events. Is it a lot of hearsay, and he said, she said?

          • Pea

            I think you should read Ray Chandler’s book. It’s out-of-print but there are many copies still around on Amazon and eBay.

            About Evan, when Jordie confessed the abuse, he never saw Jacko again outside of the August 4th meeting at the Marquis Hotel, so it wasn’t as if Evan was continuing to allow Jacko unrestricted access to Jordie. Tellingly, Jacko was intervening in the custody dispute between June and Evan, and was trying to grease the wheel to get Jordie back in June’s custody so that Jordie could join Jacko on the Dangerous Tour in Asia. (If Jordie remained with Evan, he couldn’t go.) Like with his facilitating Wade’s immigration to the U.S. for sex, Jacko was doing a similar thing with the custody case — he apparently didn’t like that Evan had filed a paper in family court forbidding June from allowing Jacko to come (no pun intended) anywhere near Jordie.

            I always founded it perversely ironic that Jacko described the time when he just got off stage following a concert as when his energy was “at it’s zenith” and that he was often returning to his hotel suite with a boy. :/ (The HIStory-era “gold pants” erections the fans drool over become sinister when you realize how much he liked taking boys on tour.)


            Jacko knew who to pick, and it should be considered a reflection of his own character that so many around him — parents of “special friends” included — were shady as hell. Evan was no saint but he’s nowhere near as bad as Janet Arvizo….

          • Neely

            Oh my, lol! That GIF…..too much!

            So, the August 4th mtg at the Marquis Hotel…..is this the meeting that Evan is referring to while talking to Dave Schwartz above? I feel like the print suggests that Jordy is still with June at that time. If Evan did in fact keep him away from MJ after the confession of molestation, then I suppose I can feel a little more respect for him.

            In your opinion Pea, what do you think Evan means when he says he will get what he wants? Money? Custody? Something else?

          • Pea

            You are correct in feeling that Jordie was still with his mother. He was. Evan didn’t get Jordie until a few days later — I don’t see the date of the conversation listed in the post above so I can’t say when exactly and my memory is failing me! But it was sometime in early July and before Jordie had confessed the abuse, so the Marquis meeting would’ve been afterward as well.

            My impression was that Evan’s “I’m gonna get what I want” is in reference to being the star parent. He’s not referring to any criminal charges or anything but family court issues.

            As he said to Dave, both Jacko and Jordie (and it would mainly be Jacko) chose the path of least resistance, and because Evan had questioned Jacko’s purported heterosexuality on at least 3 occasions, naturally they’d choose June over Evan. If Ray Chandler’s book is to be believed, then Evan didn’t like that he’d been iced out by June and Jordie under Jacko’s passive direction. And since he was afraid of what he believed to be Jacko’s potential impressing homosexuality upon Jordie, he was also upset that he’d tried to relate that fear to June and she’d basically told him to “fuck off”.

            That’s my impression of it. I don’t believe this phone transcript proves Evan was an extortionist who planned to falsely accuse Jacko of molesting Jordie. Anthony Pellicano, Jacko’s P.I., was responsible for the curiously placed glitches as well as getting Dave Schwartz to tape Even, which is highly interesting since Evan hadn’t even made any claims of molestation. Pellicano suspected it, though, and since he recently (back in 2011) said Jacko had done “far worse to young boys than molest them”, you wonder what in his 1988-1995 tenure as Jacko’s investigator had he seen. Hmm….

          • Neely

            Is Pellicano in prison? I feel like I heard that somewhere along the way. May I ask who/where he made the statement back in 2011? Jeez, what could be worse than molestation, short of killing their parents or something. Super curious about that, and of course he will likely leave that carrot to dangle forever and ever. Ugh!

          • Pea

            This is the story about Pellicano. It was a small passing comment but the fans went into denial overdrive:


            I don’t know if he’ll ever elaborate on what he meant, but all I know is that he had to know about Jacko’s pedophilia given his suspicion about Evan Chandler that led to the phone call recording.

            Here’s a book excerpt about Pellicano that you might find interesting:


          • Neely

            He seems like a straight shooter with no ulterior motives. There is no motive for making a statement so open to speculation, if you never intend to elaborate. It’s not like he said, “you can read it in my book”. Nothing to gain, and nothing to lose, makes statements like this seem the most believable.
            Thanks for the links.

          • CandyC

            I always founded it perversely ironic that Jacko described the time when he just got off stage following a concert as when his energy was “at it’s zenith” and that he was often returning to his hotel suite with a boy. :/ (The HIStory-era “gold pants” erections the fans drool over become sinister when you realise how much he liked taking boys on tour.)

            It took a moment for me to connect the dots; wow that is disturbing. It wasn’t just the HIStory-era too, he was doing it with every tour and in between. Maybe his energy was at its height not only because he thrived on stage but also due to anticipating meeting up with one his “special friends”. Those poor boys :/ I don’t want to ponder for too long what they might have endured post-concert, it makes my skin crawl.

            It always bothered me how much the fans never could stop going on about the gold pants, as someone who used to frequent fan forums I never understood their obsession with it… even though I did find him highly attractive (embarrassingly).

          • Pea

            Yes, that’s the correct implication, Candy. And I, too, thought he was attractive — in an odd way — back during HIStory, so no need for shame here. 🙂

            I think the “zenith” comment was in the Rabbi Shmuley Boteach’s book and was along the lines of Jacko’s insomnia (but I may be remembering the exact context wrong). Nevertheless, I thought it was peculiar: all that post-concert energy + starstruck fanboy…. we can all see what the calculus indicates.

            Specifically, and I think there may have been a problem in my prose, I was chuckling at the ironic “Gold Pants Love” when, according to Wade, that same gilded wee-wee engaged in statutory rape in 1997, likely did other stuff with new boy Omer Bhatti, and totally spurned “beaver”. Well, that isn’t funny, but the legions of deluded fangirls worshiping a homosexual pedophile’s penis is a thought definitely enough to make you laugh!

            Sorry, no mental images intended! :p

          • Neely

            Well, according to the transcripts of 2005, it was the Arvizos who pursued Jackson, rather than the other way around. And, that holds true with the Chandlers as well, if what June testified to in 2005 is true.

          • Neely

            So, in terms of timeline, was this conversation between Schwartz and Evan before, or after Jordan allegedly confessed molestation to Evan?

          • Neely

            Oooops, I now see Andreas that you weren’t sure about this specific timeline. Anyone else?

          • Andreas

            I think it was a little bit before Jordan had confessed to him, but there was a lot of things that made Evan put 2 + 2 together, so he felt he understood. It seems that way. At this point June had taken Jordy back, and Evan had no power to get him back, or away from June(and by proxy MJ), and for the first time June used the custody rights against him… June had her own plans, and wanted Jordy to go to the Dangerous Tour with MJ, and she had planned to go with them, as she trusted MJ and so on. At this point Evan just wanted to stop it. He had this idea about wanting everybody, including Michael, to meet and talk about things, and I think thats what the phone call was about. He tried to get them all to meet. When there was a date settled, and only David and June appeared, I think was the first time when Evan physically attacked David.

            If its true that Evan had other motives going on besides helping Jordan is an interesting take on it. I don’t know. I think its played down a bit in All That Glitters if so, but there still is this weird situation where Evan finally gets to have a meeting with Michael Jackson and Anthony Pellicano, and I think Jordy was with them, and his reaction upon finally meeting MJ was…. embracefully hugging him. Which is probably the strangest reaction he could have given to someone molesting his son.

            I noticed Ray Chandler in ATG got a bit erratic when he tried to justify what was going on in his brothers mind at the time. I think there was this shaky explanation that Evan in his ‘liberal mind’ thought that even though MJ had done things to his kid, he at the same time saw it as MJ being in love with his 13 year old son and still only wanted what was good for Jordy. He thought MJs motives was “loving”, but that he had huge psychological problems, and needed help. Very generous view of a child molester. This view would change though, and I think at other times he was angry too. I suppose I can understand that it was a very complicated situtation.

          • Neely

            I think we posted at exactly the same time….thanks for the reply.

            I can’t figure out a motive because like someone else pointed out, there is no mention of money on Evans behalf. The statement that became famous about getting everything he wants, requires some speculation. I suppose it could simply be he wants things to be the way they used to be with he, Jordy, and June, a reunion of sorts, and a rededication of custody parameters. But, he appears like he’s about to piss off literally everyone in the room, so that theory seems improbable. It does ring a bit suspicious to me, yet again, he didn’t say money. He also didn’t ever say the word molestation, yet states he has proof of something, as if he has this big bombshell to unload at the meeting.

            This man is making my head spin a little! 🙄

          • Andreas

            I understand your problems with the parents, Neely. Its tough to get how mothers let their kids sleep in bed with Jackson. I suppose I’ve come to the point to just try to understand them, as best as I can, instead of just writing them off as human failures, although I understand your urge to do so.

            I don’t think most of them had a clue what MJ was doing, or they refused to think about it. I think Michael Jackson had a very manipulative and very disarming personality. He was the kind of person you’d probably think was this fragile childlike shy person who you’d never suspect anything bad from, but evidently he had another side, a more cunning side. He had focused and large goals in most things he did. He certainly didn’t stumble to the top of a cutthroat music industry, he was very cunning and fiercly compeditive. When he saw a boy he liked, he would go chase him, and the mother/father was just the obstacle to get around. As you know, Jackson gave out sport cars and fancy houses to these families like crazy. It was a very careful grooming process.

            Its possible some of them did have a hunch. Wade’s mom is the best example as someone we think might have understood something, but I’ve read she too was very upset at one point that Wade had to sleep in his bed, as she didn’t see why, but it fell back on her. I think the Robsons were in a very vulnerable and unique situation. Joy Robson tried to get Wade to break through the entertainment industry, but it was difficult. Their funds were running low, so their connection with Jackson was vital, and I think Joy became powerless in that sense. Its a very sad fact about showbiz in itself. Often child stars become vulnerable and exploitable for degraded people in power. Its quite horrible. Sometimes parents almost pass on their child to whatever that could make them get somewhere.

          • Neely

            I was reading the demurrer document this afternoon, in Wade’s case. I could hardly stop myself from thinking, if he is claiming the “company” (Mjjs) had played a part by failing to protect him from something they allegedly suspected, then wouldn’t he need to charge his own mother too? Isn’t SHE more responsible for his welfare than literally anyone else on the planet? He’s essentially claiming they failed to protect him. If this claim should hold any water, his own mother needs to be grouped right in there with them. It is by a landslide, much more her responsibility than any other human being, period.

            So, I have these two little clips of info about Wade. His morning talk show appearance with Matt Lauer, and the demurrer statement I read today. I must admit, I’m suspicious of this guy. I can actually understand why he would tell one story in 2005, then claim the opposite. I don’t really fault him for that because so many things come into play, shame, etc, etc, etc. My hang up with him right now is, if he’s placed a monetary value on the lack of protection by MJJ productions, inc, etc, then it seems a LOT more like a money game, than molestation. The responsibility for his welfare rests solely on his parents’ shoulders, yet, he doesn’t acknowledge that, and even goes so far as to place that responsibly on the “company”. Maybe His mom is as whacky as Janet Arvizo. I feel it’s worth the effort to drag her in and ask, “where were you when you forfeited your responsibility to safeguard your child?” Maybe hearing what she has to say about herself would shed some light for both the defense and the prosecution.

            I do have one other concern with Wade. Why go public? If it happened, and it’s terribly embarrassing and shameful, why announce it on national TV? I know he must have been paid for the interview, which couldn’t have been much, but that interview opened an epic can of worms, on himself, and everyone involved really. If he was suffering from the after effects of molestation, why would he go public rather than seek private therapy and move on?

          • Pea

            I don’t think there is anything wrong with Wade Robson speaking publicly. Should he stay in the shadows? If you think so, why do you believe that, Neely? You have to consider that Wade says he was molested by a man who had 3 previous accusations against him but always maintained his innocence while calling the accusers “liars” who were only interested in his money. From Wade’s perspective, his story of life with Jacko was yet another instance of the same accusation against a man “pretending” to be good. Jacko’s stance was a lie, and Wade was challenging it with his story.

            So, from that point of view, I can see why Wade would go public (FYI: he hadn’t planned to go public but the media got wind of the case, falsely stated he’d claimed he’d “recovered” repressed memories of the abuse, and Wade wanted to address those fabrications; his hand was forced in terms of “speaking out”).

            In terms of money, well, there’s little doubt that Wade wants money. But there’s more than one explanation about why he’s seeking money. Jacko’s supporters insist he was broke and that he’s of such low moral character that he’d accuse his mentor and the man who helped him have a career of molestation because it’s “too easy” to do. They say he was angry that he was passed over for a job and is “retaliating”. This is not convincing because if Jacko was responsible for Wade having a career — and fans recognize the fact that Jacko was so instrumental that Wade would have nothing with him — why would such a indebted man bite the hand that fed him? He loved Michael. I can’t see a sufficient motive along their reasoning. They could add that Jacko’s dead so Wade doesn’t have to look him in the eyes… it would still not be good enough. You’d have to believe he was a cold-hearted sociopath to accept fan reasoning — the way Wade loves his family, his son, and is so obviously not vicious is a foil to their “monster” characterizations.

            Another explanation would be that Wade, after seeking therapy, is angered by the realization that his whole career was founded upon Michael Jackson being sexually attracted to him and that had he not “put out” he’d have nothing; he is now “lashing out” with a lawsuit so that everyone will know what Jacko did to him and how he’d been duped. I subscribe to this reasoning because it makes sense and avoids the dubious painting of every accuser in an angelic light. It’s also human — many could probably empathize with the idea of being snowed by someone they thought they loved, by being made to believe something that was bad was good (in this case, Wade thought the sex was an expression of love), and the feelings of shame associated with “allowing oneself” to be another’s plaything.

            Then it could be a mixture of the above: Wade was broke and Wade is telling the truth, and he’s using his secret to extract funds. Fans seem to think wanting money and being one of Jacko’s sex victims are mutually exclusive. They are not.

            Now, Wade apparently has a legitimate case against the Jacko companies according to the judge because he was hired and employed by them solely due to the fact Jacko was sexually interested in Wade. (After all, there were probably hundreds of dance prodigies in California that Jacko could have chosen, but he wanted Wade.) If but for Jacko’s sexual interest, he would not have been employed by the companies; if not for Jacko’s sexual interest, workers like Norma Staikos would not have organized the Robsons’ immigration to America so that Wade would be close enough to molest. That’s the logic.

            As for Joy Robson, she was a pimp. She was a stage parent of the worst breed. She likely suspected Michael Jackson was a homosexual pedophile but didn’t care about trotting her son over to Jacko’s apartment at night or allowing him to sleep with Wade on a pull out sofa bed even after the Jordie allegations. She even threatened Wade’s father not to say anything negative about Jacko or he’d never see Wade again (Wade’s father committed suicide partly because he’d worried his son, like he’d been, was molested). I believe Joy absolved herself of guilt if Wade (and Jacko) gave verbal denials — which would happen because well-groomed sex abuse victims are excellent secret keepers.

            I hope Wade has had a confrontation with his mother, although I’m sure Joy would simply lie about what she likely knew. 🙁

          • Neely

            What? Both Evan Chandler, and Mr. Robson committed suicide? I did not know that.

            To answer your question of paragraph one – no, I can’t say I believe Wade should stay in the shadows. My only point/question is, what does he really stand to gain by going public? His abuser is dead, and given the shame surrounding the type of abuse he alleges, why would he go public? It seems that from a male perspective, it is especially difficult to address, let alone share with the entire planet. If that is true, and it’s terribly difficult to talk about, imagine how magnified all that would be by sharing it with everyone, rather than say, in the privacy and comfort of a therapists office. Really, I wonder why he would bring that shit storm onto himself? After all he’s allegedly been through, emotional breakdown, molestation itself, etc, I would think a peaceful visit to a therapist would be a nice reprieve, rather than a visit to Matt Lauer, haha. Btw, I had no knowledge of it being leaked, forcing him to sort of make a public correction, which definitely changes things.

            I’m certainly interested in what you’re saying about Joy Robson. I already don’t like her, lol.

          • Andreas

            I personally always just gathered he appeared on Matt Lauer to make a public statement because he had publically denied being molested earlier, so he kind of had to explain himself. Not only did he deny being molested in the 2005 trial, but also on television at least twice. As Pea says, I think the reporting that he had a repressed memory was also something to address, because thats what people assumed. That he suddenly “remembered” being molested for 7 years. It also seemed like Wade had an interest in getting the real story about MJ and the little boys out, and it makes sense that he would go on TV at least once to announce it.

          • Pea

            It’s amazing how the whole “repressed memories” spin fabricated by TMZ has had such a tentacled reach, even though Wade and the Estate said no such thing was ever claimed. I remember stumbling across this article by a leading researcher on repressed memory, and, at least as far as the Wade content goes, it’s based on a false premise; she didn’t even bother to amend her piece when Wade clarified — practically the next day — that that whole thing was a lie: https://www.fd.org/docs/training-materials/2014/mt2014/mental_health_recollection.pdf

            It’s interesting about Wade, though. In the beginning, I did think that he was going to go the whole CSA Survivors Advocate route, and he did so early on. Fans initially claimed that they “knew” Wade was lying because he wasn’t demonstrating against pedophiles and molesters in the streets; yet, when you showed them that he had a survivors’ resource website and was doing meetups with other survivors in Hawaii, they changed it to Wade using real survivors to make himself look legitimate.

            I don’t know if Wade is still doing his meetings, and the last I heard, he was still a part of some child abuse group, but I don’t think he should’ve ever felt he needed to be “aligned” with CSA survivors — I almost felt he was doing it to be believable. It’s not everyone’s desire to be so vocal about what happened to them or to be a part of advocacy, so I’m not surprised he’s shifted his focus back to dancing and doing the stuff he used to do.

            Fans are constantly moving the goalpost. Now they are rooting for him to fail since he’s returned to choreography. Sheesh.

          • Pea

            I agree with you that he’s brought a lot of heartache to himself, at least in terms of Jacko’s sometimes criminal Wackos. But how important are those obese shut-ins, basement-dwelling weirdos, and stalking middle-aged women (married or not, childless or not) who lust over a dead suspected pedophile? Not to mention the 12-16 year olds who can barely formulate coherent sentences when they threaten death on a man whose interactions with Jacko predate their own births! None of them matter to Wade. He’s gotten lots of support by people in the dance community, his friends, his family, etc.

            “I would think a peaceful visit to a therapist would be a nice reprieve, rather than a visit to Matt Lauer, haha.”

            Well, it was leaked to the public, and there were those absurd “repressed memories” claims TMZ made up that needed addressing…. But Wade had already been in therapy before he went on the Today Show.

            As for Evan Chandler’s and Dennis Robson’s suicides, they both were Jacko-related in some capacity, although Evan was very sick from Gaucher’s Disease by the end. Dennis also suffered from depression, but he’d been a victim of CSA and was silent for 30 years before telling anyone due to shame. I don’t doubt the idea of Joy letting her son stay with Jacko after he was publicly accused really messed with Dennis’s head.

          • Neely

            One thing that has come to my conscious mind……well, let me first say I have never been a victim of molestation, so without experience, it’s my belief that understanding some aspects is limited, no matter how hard we may try. That said, Wade did counter that it was not repressed memory. I would say his explanation for the delay in coming forward was a bit vague and difficult to understand for me personally. My point is this….. If he didn’t really know it was abuse, or that he’d been seduced/manipulated, how would he have known to lie in response to the direct and very specific questions about whether Jackson had ever touched his genitals? On one hand he’s saying he didn’t realize there was any wrongdoing, but on the other, he felt inclined to cover it up. Maybe this is where my understanding will always be limited due to lack of experience. I do welcome thoughts on it.

          • ShawntayUStay

            Neely, I’m not sure if you have already, but have your read the “The Jimmy Safechuck Story” http://www.mjfacts.com/mj-facts-exclusive-jimmy-safechuck-story/ or James Safechuck’s complaint? If so, then I think it’s more understandable how Wade could proffer such a seemingly duplicitous explanation. Although both Wade and James say they didn’t realize at the time it was abuse, it was only because they were groomed to believe that to be true. After all, they not only were innocent, guileless children when everything happened, they were also fanboys in awe of their molester. That really does make all the difference and it would be too easy for MJ to manipulate them into an “alternative reality” where men and boys are allowed to do sexual things to each other. Not to mention — as Wade has stated already himself in court papers — MJ wasn’t violent; it “felt good”. I’ve seen many fans say “How could he not know an adult touching him down there was wrong?” etc, but again, that simplistic talking point ignores the reality of grooming by a well-loved trusted adult.

            Also important was that even though MJ was explaining to these boys that what they did was “love”, they also say that MJ was very adamant that they could not tell anyone because they wouldn’t “understand” and would only see MJ as a sick pedophile rather than a tender “lover”. MJ’s favorite phrase when questioned about his peculiar habit of sharing his bed with kids was “that’s ignorant” or people are ignorant to think it’s wrong. MJ also apparently made sure that even while saying they should tell no one, he was sure to de-emphasize that “wrongfulness” of it to these boys. So the sum result would be that they think it’s okay but don’t tell anyone because they will ruin the “special bond” (indeed, the bond was so “special” that according to James, MJ “married” him in a fake ceremony complete with certificate and rings!), and put all their lives at risk for censure, ostracism, or legal punishment.

            So Wade lying on the stand is just a product of what he was made to think. Did he realistically know that adults and kids aren’t supposed to have sexual contact? Of course, but he — because of the grooming — wasn’t going to apply that “wrongfulness” to what happened to him, even while giving a denial and repudiating his molestation. It’s theoretical that kids would automatically tell because many have been taught the difference between “good touch and bad touch”, but as we see with victims of pedophiles and other skilled molesters, they rarely tell anyone, either because of fear, not thinking it’s wrong, etc, etc. And Wade (and Brett and Macauley for that matter) wasn’t going to tell on MJ and put him at risk for prison.

            I know his explanation seems strange but it actually isn’t at all when you break it down. 🙂

          • Pea

            “It’s theoretical that kids would automatically tell because many have been taught the difference between ‘good touch and bad touch'”

            Your comment above reminded me of some of the statements Jacko’s Wackos make in defense of their King. For example:


            I’m not sure what the unhinged fan’s purpose was with that tweet beyond showcasing that she loses all sense if when it comes to Michael Jackson. Even a kid instructed about good and bad touching can be duped by an adult with enough skill to blur the two. How ridiculous: a tool designed to try to curb the problem of victim silence doesn’t erase the reality of victim silence; instead of accepting that Wade Robson and James Safechuck could have been manipulated into believing Jacko’s bad touching was good touching and even defend him, she decides to be cavalier.

            It was a new low for Jacko’s Wackos when I saw it, but not entirely surprising from that particular fan.

          • Neely

            Interesting you mention Jimmy Safechuck because I did read it just now. I don’t think I realized that Jackson was telling them it had to be kept secret. I only really had the Arvizo claims to reference in my mind, and I don’t remember them saying Jackson threatened them about telling. Wade and Jimmy didn’t tell because they were WARNED not to, which I see now. I could not make the connection between not knowing there was an offense, yet knowing so on some level…enough to lie about it. Jimmys story is compelling and heartbreaking. Seems like it’s a couple years old now? I’m wondering what came of it because I didn’t see anything very recent posted here. I am anxious to find out if Jacksons estate will settle or go to trial with Wade too. I’d love to see/read those transcripts. After reading the demurrer statement, I felt like there was a lot more to it than I realized in that he was an employee, which I wasn’t aware of, and that these employees are blatantly responsible for putting him in harms way, and even arranging it. Wow! I was all going off on his mom, lol! Not that she’s absolved, but, the demurrer opened my eyes to intricacies I wasn’t even considering.
            Hey, thanks for the response!

          • ShawntayUStay

            No problem :-). As for James Safechuck, his suit against the Estate is still ongoing at this moment, or rather his suit against MJ’s companies is still pending. His probate claim, just like Wade’s, was dismissed as untimely back in December 2015, but he still is involved in the civil court action. I don’t really know what will become of poor James, to be honest. In my opinion (I’m no legal expert but I play one on the Internet, LOL :-p), his position is more tenuous because he wasn’t an employee like Wade Robson was; he was simply a kid that MJ took on tour and to Neverland. He was hired to be in the Pepsi commercial (and it was this Pepsi commercial that really set the ball rolling for him to come into MJ’s gravitational pull), but I believe that he wasn’t directly hired by MJJ Productions and/or MJJ Ventures. The attorneys argued that the companies were involved in facilitating all the travel expenses, accommodations, etc etc, specifically there were certain individuals that employed by MJJ Productions (eg, Norma Staikos) that allegedly knew MJ was a pedophile with a thing for young boys, and yet they continued to arrange visits for little boys like James and Wade without regard for whether they are being placed in danger. Or at least that’s the argument. Parents like Stephanie Safechuck were completely unaware of the danger so they, in my opinion, can’t be faulted like someone like Norma Staikos who allegedly told people that Mj was lucky she “understood his problem” and told others not to leave their sons with MJ. Miko Brando — Marlon Brando’s son — was another person that allegedly knew about MJ’s “interests” and said he’d never leave his kids alone with MJ.

            I don’t know if you’ve read the actual civil complaint yet, so forgive me if this is a repeat, but here is the portions about the alleged culpability of MJJ Productions:

            42. In a witness statement taken by the Santa Barbara County Sheriffs Department (“SBSD”) on September 22, 1993 in connection with the criminal investigation into the allegations of childhood sexual abuse made by Jordan Chandler against DECEDENT (SBSD Case No. 93-14563, the “Chandler Investigation”), [REDACTED] informed the SBSD that he had witnessed several incidences of suspicious activity between DECEDENT and Plaintiff at Neverland, including finding DECEDENT’s and Plaintiffs underwear lying next to DECEDENT’s bed, and seeing DECEDENT put his hand down the front of Plaintiffs shorts while the two were bathing together in a Jacuzzi. Mr. [REDACTED] informed the SBSD that there was gossip amongst the Neverland staff that DECEDENT was “having an affair” with Plaintiff and that they were sleeping together. Mr. [REDACTED] also stated that Norma Staikos (MJJ PRODUCTIONS’ Executive Director and head of operations at Neverland) told Mr. [REDACTED] and his wife never to leave children alone in a room with DECEDENT. (A true and correct copy of Mr. witness statement is marked as Exhibit A and contained in the separate Appendix filed herewith under seal)

            43. In a witness statement taken by the SBSD on April 15, 1994 in connection with the Chandler Investigation, [REDACTED] stated that after Ms . Staikos took charge of operations at Neverland, she changed the security protocol with respect to DECEDENT’s arrival at the ranch gate in a vehicle. She said that under Ms. Staikos’ predecessor, the protocol was to stop DECEDENT at the gate and look inside his vehicle to ensure that DECEDENT had not been accosted or kidnapped and forced to drive to the ranch at gunpoint. However, after Ms. Staikos took over, security was told not to detain DECEDENT upon his arrival, and they would simply receive a phone call from Ms. Staikos telling them that DECEDENT was coming and who he was with, which was usually a juvenile boy. They would be given names such as “Jimmy” or “Wade.” Ms. [REDACTED] further stated that there were occasions when DECEDENT would enter. the ranch with a small boy and security would not be informed of the boy’s identity. On these occasions, Ms. Staikos would call security and tell them that DECEDENT was coming and that there was no reason to detain him. DECEDENT would then pass through the gate and drive up to the main house without stopping. When the identity of the boy accompanying DECEDENT was disclosed to security, they would greet DECEDENT and his guest upon arrival at the main house and help DECEDENT with his luggage. However, when DECEDENT would arrive unexpectedly with an unidentified boy, then the protocol would be for security to vacate the area around the main house so that they would not be physically close to DECEDENT or close enough to identify the boy. DECEDENT would generally arrive at night, between 10:00 p.m. and 2:00a.m. (A true and correct copy of Ms. [REDACTED] witness statement is marked as Exhibit B and contained in the separate Appendix filed herewith under seal)

            44. Ms. [REDACTED] further stated that.on one occasion, DECEDENT arrived at the ranch gate while Ms. [REDACTED] was working there. As Ms. Staikos had not called to say that DECEDENT was arriving, Ms. [REDACTED] stopped his vehicle and approached the driver’s window. DECEDENT lowered the window just enough for Ms. [REDACTED] to see his eyes, and Ms. [REDACTED] also saw a young boy on the floor between the two front seats. As she looked at the boy, he moved behind the driver’s seat in an attempt to hide from her. DECEDENT told her to “make sure the front door is open.” Ms. [REDACTED] then called Ms. Staikos to inform her that DECEDENT had arrived, and Ms. Staikos “flew off the handle” when she heard that DECEDENT had arrived without her knowledge.

            45. In a witness statement_taken by the SBSD on October 4, 1993 in connection with the Chandler Investigation, Blanca Francia, [REDACTED] informed the SBSD that Ms. Staikos “was the person who arranged things with the children and their families.” Ms. [REDACTED] stated that Ms. Staikos would arrange for a limousine to pick up Plaintiff and other children and take them to “The Hideout” to see DECEDENT. Ms. [REDACTED] said that Ms. Staikos “was in charge.” When Ms. Staikos began working for DECEDENT, she forced Ms. [REDACTED] to sign a confidentiality agreement. (A true and correct copy of Ms. [REDACTED] witness statement is marked as Exhibit C and contained in the separate Appendix filed herewith under seal).

            46. In a witness statement taken by the SBSD on April 18, 1994 in connection with the Chandler Investigation, [REDACTED] informed the SBSD that she first heard about DECEDENT’s reputation regarding children soon after she began working for MJJ PRODUCTIONS in September 1989. Ms. [REDACTED] stated that while she was being given a tour of Neverland by Ms. Staikos, Ms. Staikos stopped near the door to DECEDENT’s room and told Ms. [REDACTED] “Never leave alone with Michael Jackson.” Ms. Staikos also told Ms. [REDACTED] that “That kid [DECEDENT] better be glad I understand his problem.” (A true and correct copy of Ms. [REDACTED] witness statement is marked as Exhibit D and contained in the separate Appendix filed herewith under seal).

            47. Ms. [REDACTED] witness statement further confirms that Ms. Staikos exercised a significant degree of control over DECEDENT’s affairs in her capacity as the Executive Director of MJJ PRODUCTIONS. Ms. [REDACTED] stated that she was terminated by Ms. Staikos for appealing to DECEDENT regarding a request for a raise which Ms. Staikos had denied, and that DECEDENT later admitted to Ms. [REDACTED] that Ms. Staikos had forced DECEDENT to agree to the termination against his wishes.

            48. In a witness statement taken by the SBSD on February 15, 1994 in connection with the Chandler Investigation, [REDACTED] further confirmed Ms. Staikos’ position of authority at Neverland and her control over DECEDENT’s affairs. Mr. [REDACTED] stated that Ms. Staikos would terminate any Neverland employee who got close to DECEDENT or anyone close to DECEDENT. (A true and correct copy of Mr. [REDACTED] witness statement is marked as Exhibit E and contained in the separate Appendix filed herewith under seal).

            We will have to wait and see what happens.

          • Neely

            I don’t think I understood that Wade was an employee at some point between the ages of 7-14, or during the molestation. I DO feel that if a company employs a minor, they are obliged to protect the minor within reason. Not above and beyond the obligation of a parent, but that which would involve at least some common sense, and safety. I wonder if there’s a liability contract involved when a minor is employed. I feel like surely there must be……which really isn’t that relevant, but more just curiosity.

            I think I envisioned it as like the Arvizo kids. Just running around Neverland as visitors, expecting employees there to become surrogates.

          • Pea

            No, the Arvizos were basically people staying at the Ranch — they had no business relationships with Jacko or his companies or associates (unless, of course, you want to consider that planned rebuttal tape a contract?).

            Wade, on the other hand, first came to Neverland in Feb 1990 during a larger trip to the United States. They stayed at Jacko’s for some time, but when they returned to Australia, Jacko was in the process of getting Wade, Joy, and sister Chantal to live in the U.S. permanently. That’s where the MJJ companies come in. In order for Wade and his family to stay in the country, they needed to be workers of some sort. That’s when Jacko hired not only Wade but also mother Joy — she’d worked for a cosmetics company of some sort and was on the Jackson payroll. Wade eventually appeared in a couple of music videos and made an album with Jacko’s record label.

            So, yes, he was employed, and workers like Orietta Murdock and Norma Staikos knew of Jacko’s interest in boys but no one did a thing to intervene. You can read the logic in the Judge’s decision I linked to you earlier.

          • CandyC

            Speaking of Wade, apparently his case is now going forward, if the source I read is correct, this will be interesting.

          • Neely

            Hi Candy,
            Do you care to share the source of the information about Wades case moving forward?

          • Pea

            Neely, the source is attached to the tweet below:


          • Pea

            Neely, the Estate filed an appeal against Judge Beckloff’s decision to allow Wade to move forward and it was rejected. That source is below:


            Let me find the link to the document from the Judge that the Estate hated. EDIT: here is it: http://www.mjfacts.com/resources/wade/wade-demurrer-overruled.pdf

          • Neely

            Thank you Pea! I did see it right here after I posted the question. :/

          • Neely

            Oh my!! Norma Staikos better get her seatbelt on!! And whomever else was a silent corroborator. I can’t remember if Staikos was subpoenaed in 2005 or not, but I’m about to go to the transcripts. If she’s not there I am going to be sooooo disappointed. I need to hear something from this fruitcake.
            Thanks for the links.

          • Pea

            Yes, it’s going forward. It’s amusing how Jacko’s Wackos were gloating over Judge Beckloff’s ruling against Wade in probate court, but then they were crest-fallen when he approved the same claim against the companies. They pepped up when they learned that Jacko’s Estate was filing an appeal — Ivy, the head honcho from DailyMichael.com, seemed to almost brag (she, by the way, is a “staff” member at the vile, stalking, plagiarist forum MJJC).

            Lots of sour grapes now. The fans aren’t very happy. They thought Wade had no shot in Hell but Judge Backloff believed his argument.

          • Neely

            I wonder why fans would dismiss it as like you said, no shot in hell. My only hope is they drag his momster in too. I feel the need to know just whose ass her head was buried in, jeez.

          • Neely

            You’re more merciful than I am, haha. I know there is so much muck complicating it all, yet my mind goes back to….Evan had a responsibility, he failed, end of story. Of course it’s not that cut and dry, but my mind quite naturally ends up there.

            Part of me says, the minute these kids, and now adults, come forward with claims, their parents should be hauled in right away, and asked, “where the hell were you”? Particularly Wade. I saw a morning show where he claimed it went on for 7 years. Really?? We need to get his mother in here for neglect. People seem so busy being caught up in MJs character, that they forget about the kids, and even the parents. You can’t compare it to a neighbor, or suspicious uncle. The circumstances are worlds apart, so they simply can’t be compared, either from the defense, or the prosecutions perspective. I don’t know a thing about Wades mother, but, I do know what June testified to in 2005. I have no mercy on her soul. If this man begged and cried for some 40 minutes, she should have been packing their bags simultaneously. I can only conclude that she is either lying, or she just showed the planet what a total halfwit she is in her blatant disregard for her sons welfare.

            Sorry, bit of a rant about these parents. I am having so much trouble wrapping my brain around there being ANY motive other than their children’s safety. It seems there were other motives unfortunately. And, that’s a true tragedy.

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